HVLP best for newbie?

[wulffy]

I have painted several cars over the years always using lacquer and have never been proud of the job. It always comes out grainy. I even tried putting down a coat of thinner mixed with color to wet it down but it still looks bad. I took one fender and color sanded it but it was so grainy it took forever and it would have taken longer to color sand the whole car as it takes to paint the Golden Gate bridge..
So, I was looking at Harbor Freight and noticed they have the High Volume Low Pressure guns.. would this be better for some doofus like me that seems to always make it grainy? Would switching paint type help? I was following instructions from the local paint shop and they didn’t suggest a clear coat. If I had laid down a clear coat on top of my grainy finish would this have worked? By the way it was metallic brown.. and the color I want to put on my newest project is black or a deep blue (almost black)..
Whaddya think? is a HVLP best?
Also, I have seen compressor-less HVLP guns would these just be good for painting fences or barns?

[Roch_Greg]

well you haven't gotten any bites yet so I'll help, mind you I'm only a novice myself.

HVLP is probaly the best way to go nowadays for automotive painting. The High Volume Low Pressure system atomizies the paint very effectively even when working off of small (20 -30 gallon) tanks that don't have high CFM's.

Generally the HVLP system will allow even a beginner to achive a excellent paint job (other things considered of course)

Sharpe Manufacturing has some info on this subject you can read more over at Ask Doctor Gun (http://www.sharpe1.com/dr-hvlp.htm)

I'm not a big fan of knock off tools of any kind. If your going to buy a gun get one with some sort of reputation or following.

Whether or not you needed Clear Coat would depend on if you were using a Single Stage or Dual Stage paint. Dual Stage paints (Base Coat followed by a Clear Coat with no sanding in between) is what most cars are painted with today from the factory and also are way easier to work with than Single stage paint.

Single stage paints take some experience to know how to lay down and usually need to be "shot" in a controlled environment (paint booth).

Could this "grainy" appearence your talking about be Orange Peel?

HTH

Greg in Rochester

[Len]

I have painted several cars over the years always using lacquer and have never been proud of the job. It always comes out grainy. I even tried putting down a coat of thinner mixed with color to wet it down but it still looks bad. I took one fender and color sanded it but it was so grainy it took forever and it would have taken longer to color sand the whole car as it takes to paint the Golden Gate bridge..
So, I was looking at Harbor Freight and noticed they have the High Volume Low Pressure guns.. would this be better for some doofus like me that seems to always make it grainy? Would switching paint type help? I was following instructions from the local paint shop and they didn’t suggest a clear coat. If I had laid down a clear coat on top of my grainy finish would this have worked? By the way it was metallic brown.. and the color I want to put on my newest project is black or a deep blue (almost black)..
Whaddya think? is a HVLP best?
Also, I have seen compressor-less HVLP guns would these just be good for painting fences or barns?

A "good" HVLP gun is much easier to control than a conventional gun. HVLP uses more air but at a lower pressure which gives you better control of the result.

An airless sprayer or one of those small systems like the Wagner Power Painter are good for spraying latex but don't really atomize well enough for automotive finishes. If you want a portable system or you want to spray without a compressor then a system like the Axis Turbine Sprayer is best.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/axis.jpg


Turbine Sprayer Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=5TSS)

[wulffy]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the information. Oh, about the 'grainy' finish... it's not orange peel, it is rough almost like the paint is drying before it hits the surface but it seems like I can't use the right reducers to prevent this. Perhaps it's the lacquer? The paint shop guys keep telling me a novice should use lacquer because it is so forgiving but in the past when I paint machines, cabinets, etc using enamal I always seem to get a better finish.. maybe I could do a better job using a different type of automotive paint?
Thanks again

[Roch_Greg]

I'm thinking that maybe that the advice your getting (however well intended) isn't working out.

I used Dupont Chromabase my first time out. I would look into a different paint one that is "Automotive" from the start and not the same
stuff used for general household/workshop projects

[Len]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the information. Oh, about the 'grainy' finish... it's not orange peel, it is rough almost like the paint is drying before it hits the surface but it seems like I can't use the right reducers to prevent this. Perhaps it's the lacquer? The paint shop guys keep telling me a novice should use lacquer because it is so forgiving but in the past when I paint machines, cabinets, etc using enamal I always seem to get a better finish.. maybe I could do a better job using a different type of automotive paint?
Thanks again

Lacquer is a very fast drying material and tends to go on dull because the dropplets don't FLOW after they hit the surface. If you make the mistake of applying the lacquer in a manner that doesn't allow it to flow a little it's like spraying small particles of wet sand on the finish and no matter what you do, buffing wise, it will be difficult to make it look good. If you continue to use lacquer (it's getting hard to find these days) try using a slower drying thinner and more the gun more slowly as you spray.

The enamel you're spraying dries more slowly and when the dropplets hit the surface they flow together making a smoother coating. This is the type of material most people and shops are using these days, either acrylic enamel or urethane. Usually enamel is less expensive but doesn't hold up as well as urethane. Both enamel and urethane should be used with a hardener to help you fix any mistakes you may make and help the coatings to last longer.

If you use products that have a hardener mixed in you want to be sure to protect yourself properly from the fumes and overspray.

[86camaroman]

laquer is a waste of time in my opinion for the fact even if you put a nice slick job on it to keep it that way you would have to buff it every week but in your case its prolly the reducer your using if your going to do a single stage go acrylic enamel or a urethane single stage most acrylics reduce 4to1 but if you mix it 1to1 in my opinion you will get a nicer finish cause it will flow out near perfect and one more thing you cannot sand and buff a single stage metalic color only a single stage solid color cause sanding the metalics streaks it take it from me you dont want to have to redo a paint job if you dont have to the harbor freight guns are descent it was the first hvlp gun i ever had but i finally worked my way up to a sata wich is very nice but the hvlp doesnt mean it lays paint better in fact a reduced pressure or high pressure gun in my opinion will give better results and faster then a hvlp gun

[Len]

laquer is a waste of time in my opinion for the fact even if you put a nice slick job on it to keep it that way you would have to buff it every week but in your case its prolly the reducer your using if your going to do a single stage go acrylic enamel or a urethane single stage most acrylics reduce 4to1 but if you mix it 1to1 in my opinion you will get a nicer finish cause it will flow out near perfect and one more thing you cannot sand and buff a single stage metalic color only a single stage solid color cause sanding the metalics streaks it take it from me you dont want to have to redo a paint job if you dont have to the harbor freight guns are descent it was the first hvlp gun i ever had but i finally worked my way up to a sata wich is very nice but the hvlp doesnt mean it lays paint better in fact a reduced pressure or high pressure gun in my opinion will give better results and faster then a hvlp gun

First, lacquer can be applied properly so that you don't get as much "dull-back" and lacquer does a beautiful show quality paint job. However it doesn't weather well and (these days) is usually only pays to use lacquer (sprayed properly) on show cars that don't see a lot of sunlight. If lacquer is sprayed in several spraying sessions with sanding in-between coats the solvents will escape and not cause as much dull-back. To spray lacquer on a show vehicle we charge 3 to 4 times the price of a high end urethane job.

You say 4-1 or 1-1 mix. I don't know what products you're using but I've never seen a urethane that gives you mixing options like that. Most paint products should be sprayed according to the recommendations of the manufacturer, straying too far from the recommended mix causes more problems than it cures especially when using hardened materials.

[86camaroman]

i like how you said not as much dull back wich means it still happens but i will agree lacquer is beautiful and has lots of depth i just think its alot of work and even when your done still work to keep it looking good as far as mixing paint the paint i have used works perfectly over reducing it gives it a way better final result but i agree you dont want to over do it always stick with what the manufacturers say especially if you arent familiar with the product but if you are familiar with the and want to experiment on old pieces that you have laying around it is possible to find a way that it can work better for you also how much for that 007 spray gun looks cool