Newbie: Some Basic Questions

[Singedfur]

Hello! Lots of questions here, but if anyone can help with any of them, I'd be grateful!

Background:
I've never painted before but would like to paint my '72 Corvette (which I am custom-building ground-up) in the garage. I plan on bright red polyurethane bc/cc.

Compressor: Old Sanborn purchased from a friend; he said it does 18cfm@100psi, 80 gal. tank, 5 hp. He said it supported two painters at once in his shop years back (what kind of guns...?). From the little bit of research I've done on compressors, the numbers this thing puts out seem very high for just 5 hp.

I am a perfectionist and (with some practise) want the job to look very professional/top-notch. While I am certainly not looking to blow money on a gun with bells and whistles only the experienced can appreciate, I am also not opposed to paying more if it means more user-friendliness or a higher chance of achieving an excellent job.

Questions:
Do my compressor specs sound realistic for only 5 hp?
Will my compressor limit me to a certain type of gun?

Knowing I will be very slow and cautious, will this affect what gun I buy, or just what settings/tips I use? I've heard some guns lay the paint down too "fast": is this just a result of the tip sized used, such that the same gun could be "slowed down" with a different tip?

Can one gun do everything: primer, bc, cc, just by swapping out tip sizes? Why do I read of people using a dedicated primer gun?

Is it true the "compliant" guns are the best of both worlds, conventional and LVLP? Should I only consider a compliant gun, or would a good HVLP or LVLP do the trick? Which type would minimize the overspray cloud?

Thank you!
Patricia Brown

[Len]

Questions:
Do my compressor specs sound realistic for only 5 hp?
Will my compressor limit me to a certain type of gun?
Yes that sounds right for 5 hp and you should be able to use any type of automotive-type spray gun you want.

Knowing I will be very slow and cautious, will this affect what gun I buy, or just what settings/tips I use? I've heard some guns lay the paint down too "fast": is this just a result of the tip sized used, such that the same gun could be "slowed down" with a different tip?
Some guns are faster than others while others may be easier to control. I don't recommend trying to slow things down by changing tips. The tip size is usually determined by the viscosity of the materials you're spraying.

Can one gun do everything: primer, bc, cc, just by swapping out tip sizes? Why do I read of people using a dedicated primer gun?
One gun can do it all as long as you take more care to clean out the primer. Primer clings to the guns interior surfaces more than most paint does and you need to be more vigilant in order to remove it properly. If you use a dedicated primer gun it's usually not as critical because a speck or two of primer coming out while shooting more primer is no big deal.

Is it true the "compliant" guns are the best of both worlds, conventional and LVLP? Should I only consider a compliant gun, or would a good HVLP or LVLP do the trick? Which type would minimize the overspray cloud?
Compliant guns use a higher air pressure at the air cap which tends to atomize the paint better but also makes the gun a little more difficult for the novice to control than HVLP. HVLP uses lower air pressure but more air volume to atomize the paint (your compressor will still work) and that lower pressure creates less of an air pillow on the surface and thereby generates less overspray and helps make the application of the paint more consistent. While you may get a little more orange peel with HVLP you will almost always need to sand and polish the paint in order to get a really good job so compliant or HVLP makes little difference to the person who only paints occasionally. I'm an advocate for HVLP for most new painters who want the best results when they are in the learning stage.

There are a couple of excellent HVLP guns on the market so it comes down to how much you want to spend. The DeVilbiss GTI comes with three fluid tips and costs just under $300 and the Dura-Block 007 comes with three separate heads as well as cups, stand and inlet regulator for $479. Dura-Block also makes a less expensive HVLP gun called the 7003GMS which is being offered with two fluid tips until the end of the month, this gun sells for $129.

[Singedfur]

Len, thank you for all the help!

So when shopping for a gun, how do I know if it would be too fast or not? Or would any HVLP be slow enough for a beginner?

To clarify: Is it correct that "fast" refers to the gun atomizing the paint so well it flashes off very quickly, thus making it difficult to get around the car before the first part flashes off, causing a yucky finish where it overlaps?

So if I'm going to try to do it all with one gun, it would be very important to select a gun that comes with multiple tip sizes, as primer, bc, and cc all require different tips?

Between the $129 Dura-Block and the $479 Dura-Block, what would be the main difference(s)?

Thank you,
Patricia Brown

[X711]

Background:
I've never painted before but would like to paint my '72 Corvette (which I am custom-building ground-up) in the garage. I plan on bright red polyurethane bc/cc.

Compressor: Old Sanborn purchased from a friend; he said it does 18cfm@100psi, 80 gal. tank, 5 hp. He said it supported two painters at once in his shop years back (what kind of guns...?). From the little bit of research I've done on compressors, the numbers this thing puts out seem very high for just 5 hp.

================================================== =======
That sounds about right, but your going to need more than just the compressor. You will need a good water trap, high flow connectors a good
hose and some form of dryer for the air, tyypically the air dryer can come
as part of the water trap.
================================================== =======

I am a perfectionist and (with some practise) want the job to look very professional/top-notch. While I am certainly not looking to blow money on a gun with bells and whistles only the experienced can appreciate, I am also not opposed to paying more if it means more user-friendliness or a higher chance of achieving an excellent job.

Questions:
Do my compressor specs sound realistic for only 5 hp?
Will my compressor limit me to a certain type of gun?

================================================== =======
That compressor will work fine..
================================================== =======

Knowing I will be very slow and cautious, will this affect what gun I buy, or just what settings/tips I use? I've heard some guns lay the paint down too "fast": is this just a result of the tip sized used, such that the same gun could be "slowed down" with a different tip?

================================================== =======
The speed at which a gun lays down paint depends on the viscosity of the
paint and also the tip / cap, Look at the gun like a tap. Open the tap more and more will flow out.
================================================== =======

Can one gun do everything: primer, bc, cc, just by swapping out tip sizes? Why do I read of people using a dedicated primer gun?

================================================== =======
One gun can do pretty much everything, but primer can be tricky as it is
typically thicker in viscosity than standard paint. A typical tip size for primer
is 1.8mm but for high build epoxy primer this might not be enough. 1.8, 1.4
will work good if you reduce or thin the primer prior to application.

People use a dedicated primer gun for various reasons mainly I believe
they wish to keep their high end gun for just paint. On the flip side a high
quality gun could be used for primer too, Since your paint is going to be applied on top of primer a higher quality gun might lay the primer flatter
so hense you would have a better surface to paint on.
================================================== =======

Is it true the "compliant" guns are the best of both worlds, conventional and LVLP? Should I only consider a compliant gun, or would a good HVLP or LVLP do the trick? Which type would minimize the overspray cloud?

================================================== =======
I think the HVLP Stuff is BS, HVLP is just a standard that dictates a 10psi cap pressure on the gun. Regardless if the gun is HVLP or not its pretty easy to up the air pressure and the gun is no longer compliant with the HVLP standard

I use a Devilbiss GFG670 which is a compliant gun. I would go with something similar to that. If you wish to keep overspray down you can reduce the air pressure into the gun but not to the point of where it cant atomize the paint.
================================================== =======

One other thing. Before you decide to go ahead and paint, learn as much
as you can. One important factor is the paint viscosity and methods used
to reduce or thin the paint to a sprayable viscosity. You can have the best
equipment in the world but if that paint is the wrong viscosity your end result
will be very poor. You might consider getting a ZAHN 2 cup to check the
mixed paint viscosity prior to application.

There is also a video available for purchase on this site, as a beginner it might save you alot of hair pulling if you go ahead and get it.

What paint do you have in mind ???

Good Luck on your project.... Thanks X

[Singedfur]

Hi X,

Thanks for the pointers. Yes, I am aware I will need a good desicant filter for my compressor. I do not yet have one. I am under the impression an in-line, right-at-the-gun, disposable type is acceptable. I would LOVE to be able to use the re-chargeable type (the expensive ones where you can replace the media, rather than throw the whole thing away), but I called Milton Industries (I'm presently using Milton's F-R-L units) and the guy said their rechargeable desicant filter would not function well with only 5 hp compressor. He said I would have to use the little throw-away type at the gun. Maybe there's another brand out there that would work...

You bring up a good point about a more expensive gun possibly laying the primer down flatter and better, thus making a better base for the paint. Len was saying primer can be a bit hard to clean out of the gun, but if I'm very careful I could be ok running primer and paint through the same gun. I like the idea of spraying the best primer layer I can.

Yes, I just ordered the video off this site. I have been scraping together any info I can before buying a gun or anything. I have a couple of the Paintucation videos, also, and plenty of books. Typically the books leave me feeling like the whole thing is impossible, but I know it can't be rocket science.

If you know of any other videos, articles, etc. on painting, please let me know. I'm always keeping my eyes out.

I don't yet have a particular brand of paint in mind. It has been drummed into my mind to pick a system/brand and stick with it all the way through. Quite frankly, I don't know anything about one brand over another; about all I know is that there are some big names that sound familiar! That will be another whole can of worms to deal with. Actually, I'm probably a year or so out on the actual paint job. I'm building the car and am doing some fiberglass repairs right now. I almost have the firewall spiffed up, and I will need to primer and paint it (black) before too long, as the body will be going back on the chassis relatively soon. But the exterior body paint (red) won't happen 'til the whole car is done. Regardless, I'm beginning to wonder what paint system to pick and gun to use, as I might as well do the firewall with what I'll be doing the rest with.

Thank you for your help,
Patricia

[Len]

If you look at the tip of an HVLP gun and the tip of a compliant gun you'll see that the gap between the fluid tip and the air cap is much larger on the HVLP. This causes the gun to use more CFM at a lower pressure. The pressure can be increased until the gun is no longer HVLP but it can also distort the pattern when the pressure is increased so it's not really BS as x711 indicates, it's engineering. A decent HVLP gun is slower in that the motion of your arm when applying the paint is actually slower and the control is better because you're not chasing the gun around the car and the lower air pressure makes the paint application more consistent; less runs and dry spots. The "compliant" gun will break the paint up into smaller droplets but you will get more of the paint in the air and less on the car than when you use a decent HVLP gun.

One thing that should be noted is that it's better to buy a decent HVLP than to try to go with an inexpensive HVLP. Stick with HVLP guns that are at least $100 or more. If you can't afford $100 go with a conventional spray gun. A general rule is that the more you spend on a gun the easier it is to use so get the best gun that you can afford.

[Singedfur]

Len,

HVLP makes sense to me, then, as I definitely want to minimize overspray and "cloud" conditions. I have to do this in my garage, so the less mess the better. I like the idea of slow application, too.

Yes, I'm expecting to pay well over $100 for a good gun. Of the 3 you mentioned, the DeVilbiss GTI ($300), the Dura-Block 007 ($479), and the 7003GMS ($129), which would yield the best results for a newbie? Would they all handle primer through cc? What's the difference between the two Dura-Blocks, other than lots of $?

Patricia

[Len]

The two Dura-Block guns are very different. The 7003GMS is a low end HVLP gun that works well but not nearly as well as the 007. The 007 is like buying three high-end guns for the price of one. Check out the details on the 007 at the link below he picture. The GMS is a low budget gun that produces good results for the money but the 007 is a high-end gun that is very efficient with it's air and paint usage as well as being able to apply an excellent finish using primer, single stage and base/clear.


http://www.autobodystore.com/db007spray.jpg

Dura-Block 007 Details Link (http://www.autobodystore.com/dura-block.htm)

[Singedfur]

Len, thank you for the info on the guns. Is there an advantage to having multiple heads rather than just tips? It sounds like many guns come with multiple tips, but I haven't heard much about multiple heads. What is the advantage?

Also, IF I were to flub up and accidentally damage a head by leaving a speck of primer in it, such that it no longer did a great job spraying top coat, can I a replacement head be purchased from Dura-Block?

On a seperate note, I was at a different site where a few guys were raving over their (cheap) Astro Pneumatic guns, which are apparently copies of other brands' high-end guns. They talked like they were great, especially the LVLP model, EVO4014. They are so cheap there must be some compromise somewhere...do you know anything about these guns?

Patricia

[X711]

Let me follow up on my earlier statement about thinking HVLP is BS.

I was referring to the difference between a HVLP gun and a gun which falls
in the middle ground of conventional and hvlp such as devilbiss gfg670 plus gun.

When painting it is desirable to atomize the paint correctly, Even when painting slow with a hvlp gun you may find that you have the gun set for its specs but it still is failing to atomize the paint so the paint you paid alot of $$$$ for is going on the panel and turning out not looking too good. Painting clear would be a very good example of this. "In this situation you may opt to up the air pressure in the hope of atomizing the paint better" At this point
your HVLP Spec goes out the window. :)

In the last few years manufacturers such as Sata,Devilbiss etc have shifted away from HVLP and on to what they call Plus guns or higher efficiency guns.
The reason is this. Atomizing problems with the paint and productivity for the end user"

These higher efficiency guns can emulate a hvlp gun where needed but can
also be setup to spray similar to a conventional gun but without massive overspray problems.

I have both HVLP guns and the newer style high efficiency guns, as a part
time painter I work better and get better results either working slow or fast
with the non HVLP labeled guns i.e the Plus type guns.

Before you go out and purchase a high end gun it might be an idea to
purchase a low cost hvlp gun to get a feel for the process first then proceed
from there. Whatever you decide make sure you can get replacement parts
for the gun. Factor this into your purchase decision.

This is where I was coming from when I said HVLP was bs.

Thanks.... X

[Singedfur]

X,

Are these guns you mention that fall in the middle ground, such as the DeVilbiss Plus, considered Compliant-type?

And what would be the symptoms of paint not atomizing well...orange peel? or other? Because you can always just sand orange peel off, right?

Thanks, Patricia

[X711]

Hi Patricia,

These guns would be considered by some to be Compliant-type. Devilbiss
touts there gun to have the following features.

Model No.
GFG-670
======================================
powerful atomization Twice
the energy vailable n HVLP guns

>>>>> Very important <<<<<<<<<<<
======================================
Powerful productivity Super Fast
fluid Flow for high speed painting

>>> If running at full trigger, paint can be put down fast if needed<<<<
=======================================
powerful efficiency equal to or
better than HVLP ransfer efficiency "From experiance.. "Better"

>>>>>>> Very important <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

=======================================

Some symptoms of poor atomization would be,

Heavy coating loaded with orange peel.
Un-Even coating or needing excessive coats to hide primer undercoat.
Using more paint than is needed.
Difficulty in laying out the paint at a wide fan width, Paint would be heavy
in the middle, dryer closer to edge of fan.

On the ones above that come to mind, Peel would be a big one followed closely by un-even coating.

You cant just look at sanding out peel as a simplified thing to do. For single
stage paint you will spend many hours wet sanding away until the paint is flat. "Keep the word Flat in your mind"

On a base coat clear coat application, typically you will see the peel in the clear as its technology is very similar to simple single stage paint. No big deal
right just sand it out ??? "Wrong"

Blow through that clear layer to the base coat, and you will be re-painting
either the clear or both.. "Get the idea" :)

The key to the whole process is the ability to lay the paint as flat or as some
call as slick as possible. For BC/CC this means little or no peel in the clear.

For single stage paint this means very mild or no peel.

The other important factor is the Viscosity of the paint, that is also Key.

Get the viscosity correct and couple that with a Plus technology gun and
you will be off to the races or at least have a fighting chance right out the
gate.

When you start out painting things go wrong even for a seasoned pro.
I am no pro... You stand a far better chance of achieving your desired
results if you purchase a good gun. You will find yourself saying FU@#
this a whole lot less :) and in general you will enjoy the learning experience
alot more ! "Remember paint aint cheap, so you want it to go on even and smooth"

On the gun options many local jobbers or your local automotive paint store
might be able to give you a loaner gun to try before you buy. That might
be worth checking out.

Oh btw, you mentioned paint in a previous post. See my post today on the
auto-air color water based paint, this paint might be a option for you.

Best regards X

[Len]

Before you go out and purchase a high end gun it might be an idea to
purchase a low cost hvlp gun to get a feel for the process first then proceed
from there. Whatever you decide make sure you can get replacement parts
for the gun. Factor this into your purchase decision.


HVLP guns are a novices dream, they are easier to handle because of the lower pressure coming from the tip but I would never recommend purchasing a low cost HVLP because they usually don't spray well.

True the HVLPs don't break the paint up as well as a compliant but some orange peel isn't as much of a factor if you are planning on polishing the paint when you're done like most folks that want a good job and they will still need to polish even if they use a "compliant" gun. I would rather see a person lay down a consistant coating from an HVLP gun than a super smooth coat that has runs and dry spots that are more likely from a gun that has a higher pressure at the air cap.

[Singedfur]

Hi X,

Thank you for explaining the results of poor atomization. I was under the impression any orange peel could always just be sanded out, but it sounds like if you have too much peel it can become a real mess.

I've also wondered if you get minor peel in the color coat (why should it be limited only to the clear coat?), do you sand that out before clearing? Will it show if you ignore it and proceed and only sand out the clear?

Len,

So you recommend a high-quality HVLP over a compliant-type because the HVLP will generally lay down a more consistant coat with fewer runs, sags, etc. for a first-timer ("slow" gun)? And while the HVLP may cause minor peel, it is not so much that some sanding and polishing (which I certainly don't mind doing) can't remove? I certainly don't want serious peel problems such as X mentions...but that sounds like more what you'd run into with a cheapo gun that does not atomize well.

Here's a thought I've wondered about: if I understand properly, the only way to avoid all/almost all peel is by using a "fast" gun that lays it out slick, which sounds more difficult to control for a beginner. So if I go with a "slower" gun I can expect some peeling. With this in mind, should I do extra coats of paint to allow for wet sanding some of it back off? I don't have any idea how many coats of paint get sanded off during the sanding/polishing stage and if that should be compensated for. How many coats should I be looking at for bc/cc (and that will allow a safety margin for lots of future detailing/buffing with a rotary machine)? At how many layers of bc and cc will problems show themselves from too much paint? My car, by the way, is stripped to bare fiberglass, so I will not have old paint underneath.

Thank you, Len and X, for all your help! I'm beginning to feel like some of this is making sense. :)

Patricia

[X711]

Hi Patricia

In a base coat clear coat system the base paint looks dull and flat, no shine
to it typically its not so prone to orange peel.

For the best result you need to get the paint on the panel to lay as flat
as possible.

If there is minor orange peel in the base coat you could sand it out prior to
application of the clear coat.

When you put the clear coat on the car, Every dust nib, small scratch thats
on the base coat will show. If your using a dark color all these little imperfections will show up real well !. If there is orange peel in the base coat
this will also show up.

Thanks .. X

[X711]

Patricia

Quick question, In your mind what would you consider a slow gun to
be?

I an curious about this so let me know.

Thanks... X

[Singedfur]

Hi X,

Please straighten me out here if I have the wrong idea...

I am trying to figure out exactly what a "slow" vs. "fast" gun is. I have not gotten a super clear answer. I'm under the impression a fast gun would be the type which pumps out more paint (whether just volume or just pressure or the combination, I'm not sure) and hence is going to produce more runs and sags for a novice than would a gun that shoots out less paint. ?? Do I have this right? And it sounds like HVLPs tend to (generally) be slower/drier application which is also why they tend to put out a bit more peel. And the old conventionals, and to some degree, the compliants pump out more paint and will hence make a wetter coat, smoother coat, and less peel, but would be trickier for a beginner to control. Am I in the ballpark?

Patricia

[Len]

The time it takes to spray a car will be less when you use a faster gun. This is more important in a production shop but for the average DIYer it's of little consequence and better control with more consistant results is usually more important.

[Len]

Hi Patricia

In a base coat clear coat system the base paint looks dull and flat, no shine
to it typically its not so prone to orange peel.

For the best result you need to get the paint on the panel to lay as flat
as possible.

If there is minor orange peel in the base coat you could sand it out prior to
application of the clear coat.

When you put the clear coat on the car, Every dust nib, small scratch thats
on the base coat will show. If your using a dark color all these little imperfections will show up real well !. If there is orange peel in the base coat
this will also show up.

Thanks .. X

I don't know what type of base coat you're accustom to spraying but I've never used one that you could sand prior to the application of clear without having to go back and reapply the base after sanding.

[X711]

Patricia see comments in-line

Please straighten me out here if I have the wrong idea...

I am trying to figure out exactly what a "slow" vs. "fast" gun is. I have not gotten a super clear answer. I'm under the impression a fast gun would be the type which pumps out more paint (whether just volume or just pressure or the combination, I'm not sure) and hence is going to produce more runs and sags for a novice than would a gun that shoots out less paint. ?? Do I have this right?

================================================== =======

Patricia your analogy above is correct, with respect to runs etc its a mute point because you control the speed at which the gun is capable of putting paint down on a panel through of the use of the following.

1 Viscosity of material you wish to spray.
2 Fluid adjust needle & tip size you choose.
3 Fan adjust
4 Air pressure.

Once you do your static spray out test pattern the only variables
are how fast or slow you move your arm and the distance from the panel.

Depending on your style of painting regardless of the gun you use you will
need to adjust the gun accordingly so that the paint is properly atomized for a particular gun speed/distance from the panel.

Dont get hung up on this gun speed thing, You need to concentrate on getting a gun that can atomize your paint as best as possible. This will allow you to get good results. With any gun if you apply to much material in a given spot you will get a run, If you apply too little material you will not get the correct amount of coverage and or the paint will look coarse or dry.

There is no automatic setting, Each gun needs to be tweeked to make it spray the way you want it to spray.

My choice of guns would be

Devilbiss GFG-670 Plus
Devilbiss GTI
Sharpe higher end hvlp products. Finex are also pretty good on the low end.

I choose the Devilbiss on top because it does a nice job of atomizing the paint. This is not to say the other guns above are no good. This would be my preference and your mileage might differ. Atomization is the key.

You now should have enough info to make an informed decision.

Go get a gun, some paint and experiment until it all becomes clear in your mind. Practice on something other than your car until you feel your at the
point of giving it a go !

Thanks ... X

[Singedfur]

Thanks, X, for clarifying the slow/fast thing.

So one last nagging concern...

I want a finished paint job that has zero peel. How do I address orange peel in the color coat? It sounds like the bc typically does not get as much peel as the clear, but if it gets some it will show through. I'm getting conflicting info on whether you can sand a color coat to remove peel, prior to clearing.

If there's no good way to remove peel from the color coat, that puts a great emphasis on the gun's ability to lay a very flat color coat, and may direct me away from an HVLP that tends to create a minor amount of peel (which in the clear coat is not a concern, as it can be polished out).

Any insight appreciated,
Patricia Brown

[X711]

Hi patricia.

If you get peel in the color coat, your best bet is to scuff or lightly
sand the color coat and then re-paint that area. It is possible to very lightly
sand out imperfections prior to applying the clear but you would need to make
sure there is no diferance in color between the sanded area and the non sanded area. Im talking about wet sanding using 2000 grit paper to do this.

Most folks would not go to this trouble and the prefered method it to re-coat.
If you get trash in the base coat, you will need to remove it prior to the application of the clear coat.

Depending on the paint your using for a base coat, you will find that if will
spray on pretty flat so I dont think orange peel would be a problem for you.

I think you may have more of a problem with dust etc making its way into the
base more so than anything and also the clear too.

I understand that your trying to analyze this to death before you begin which
is fine, but sooner or later your gonna have to get a gun, mix paint and setup
to shoot the paint. Even with all the info in the world under your belt things
can still go wrong.

Since this is I believe your first car, here is what I suggest you do. Purchase
a good gun. Purchase some single stage paint of good quality, for example
valspar OMEGA 2K 840 or House of Kolor, The color is not important. Get a
ZAHN 2 Cup so you can check viscosity.

Get some panels and practice. BTW the single stage paint has the clear built
in so you do not need a clear coat. The valspar 840 can be cleared later if you wish. You can also practice buffing the paint when it drys. This paint will
buff to a mirror finish, it will blow your mind.

Once you get used to mixing the paint and spraying, you will be in a far better
position as to know what to expect moving forward.

You should also pick up some primer and shoot that too.

When you get experience you might decide at that stage that you dont want
a BC/CC paint and would be happy with a SS paint job instead.

If you need help choosing paint or primer let me know, I know the valspar
stuff pretty well so I may save you some hair pulling !

Thansk X

[Singedfur]

Thanks, X, for your help. I guess you're right: I need to just get a good gun and jump in. I like to understand all the ins-and-outs of something before going for it, but it sounds like selecting a gun is not a black and white issue!

Thank you for the offer on help with selecting Valspar products, if I go that route. I'll see what all my local shop carries and go from there.

Much appreciated,
Patricia Brown

[Len]

Thanks, X, for clarifying the slow/fast thing.

So one last nagging concern...

I want a finished paint job that has zero peel. How do I address orange peel in the color coat? It sounds like the bc typically does not get as much peel as the clear, but if it gets some it will show through. I'm getting conflicting info on whether you can sand a color coat to remove peel, prior to clearing.

If there's no good way to remove peel from the color coat, that puts a great emphasis on the gun's ability to lay a very flat color coat, and may direct me away from an HVLP that tends to create a minor amount of peel (which in the clear coat is not a concern, as it can be polished out).

Any insight appreciated,
Patricia Brown

Patricia
When you spray paint you are projecting small dropplets of paint at the surface carried on a current of air. Without experience there is no way you're going to master the proceedure the first couple times you pick up a spray gun no matter how good the gun is. There is a very fine line between having an orange peel texture and having the paint run down the side of the vehicle so it's much better to error on the side of orange peel because it's much easier to correct. If you're worried about applying the paint perfectly on your first attempt I can tell you that you'll be disappointed.

If you have a consistant coating without runs and dry spots you can easily sand the finish coat with fine sandpaper to level the orange peel then polish away the sandscratches to produce a beautiful flat finish. Check your Spray Painting 101 Video when it arrives and you'll get a clear picture of the process. We've had several people produce show winning paint jobs on their first try, just take your time, understand the process and do a little spraying, sanding and polishing practice before aiming the gun at your project.

One more thing.... If the project is important don't use inexpensive materials, find a supplier in your area that handles quality paint and is willing to talk you you when necessary. I'd recommend going with a brand like PPG, DuPont, BASF or a large paint company that produces several lines of paint then go with one of their top product lines. Just because someone else is familiar with a brand doesn't make it good and it could be that they don't have a lot of experience with other brands. For a complete paint job you can expect to pay between $400 and $800 for materials and if you strip the car you'll be closer to $800 than to $400.

Finially.... Once you are successful and produce a paint job you can be proud of you're going to LOVE this work, it's great to see what you can do and have other people ask "Who did the paint job?", the answer is very rewarding. Be sure to protect yourself from ALL of the chemicals ALL of the time, it's no fun having a beautiful paint job if it made you so sick you never get well. These paint products are wonderful to work with but you need to be breathing fresh air while you're spraying or it could cost you much more than you planned.

[Singedfur]

Len,

Thank you for the encouragement. I really look forward to getting the video! No, I certainly won't skimp on paint materials, or a gun for that matter. I want to put only the best on this car. I've worked far too hard to use cheap stuff.

I just spent today researching all the proper air filters that I will need and have spoken to Motor Guard. I plan to get the air "conditioned" really properly before I get a gun.

Maybe my old '79 Chevy truck will end up with a freshly-painted hood, as my practise medium! But of course, that will make the rest of it look really bad... :)

I'm scared to death of the chemicals in these paints and am going to get a fresh air suit. I have not begun looking into brands, yet, but I definitely want a good, safe one.

Thanks for all the help and advice,
Patricia

[Len]

I'm scared to death of the chemicals in these paints and am going to get a fresh air suit. I have not begun looking into brands, yet, but I definitely want a good, safe one.



Check out the Hobbyair supplied air systems, they are priced right and they work well. You can get better ones like SAS but they cost twice as much. I recommend the Hobbyair II with direct feed hood. If you get the direct feed hood be sure to get lens protectors so that you don't distroy the lens with the overspray.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/hobbyair2.jpg
Hobbyair Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=HP)

[Singedfur]

Len,

Just curious why you recommend the direct-feed hood over, say, the full-face mask or half-mask/hood combo?

Which offers best safety protection?

Which offers best visibility?

Patricia

[Len]

Len,

Just curious why you recommend the direct-feed hood over, say, the full-face mask or half-mask/hood combo?

Which offers best safety protection?

Which offers best visibility?

Patricia

1. The direct feed hood protects hair, ears, neck and you can wear glasses or have facial hair while still getting good protection.

2. The hood is very comfortable, almost like wearing a baseball hat while the other masks have rubber against your face and the air hits you right in the face. After about an hour you're ready to scream.

3. With other masks the hose is in front of you but the hood has the hose in back out of the way.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/H13011.jpg

[Singedfur]

Thanks, Len. That makes a lot of sense.

Do all the units you sell have a similiar intake hose length? I am hoping for a nice, long intake hose, as I want to get it far away from the garage. Do the nasty vapors dissipate quickly, or do they tend to travel far? Is it best to have the intake hose end up higher (such as in a tree branch?) or on the ground?

Patricia

[mmooney84]

If you are just painting that one vehicle I wouldnt blow money on a fresh air system. I paint several cars a month and are friends with several shops that
paint alot of cars a month and there paint booths arent much bigger than a garage and they just use a middle of the road filter mask. 3m makes a good one that I use. I think that fresh air system if more for aircraft painters who paint all day long. Buy some cheap fans to blow the air out with and crack your garage about 12 inches and you will be fine. Clear coat is the only thing that has a strong odor. Oh and I was reading some other post about orangepeel in the base coat, you shouldnt have to worry about that. I put my hvlp gun around 20-25 psi and apply about 8 inches from the car and never have any problems. When you put the clear down is when you usually get orange peel. I apply a light coat of clear, let it tack then I apply a steady solid coat of clear and let it tack and then one more steady full coat. I didnt find paintucations videos to be that helpful so I went to a local body shop and got some free lessons. I would definately get a good gun. I started out using a cheap taiwan gun and switch to the Binks MG1 and it has made a ton of differences. Less overspray and better coverage.
Goodluck if it doesnt come out great the first time do it again. It took me 3-4 paint jobs to get decent results.

[Singedfur]

mmooney84,

You confirmed what seems to be the general concensus: the bc of a bc/cc system does not seem to suffer from much peel so not to worry. This is good! :)

Yeah, the main thing I liked about the Paintucation video was that it showed the spraying of the whole car, which I've wondered how exactly to go around the car, etc.

Regarding a fesh air mask: all along my car project I've dreamed of spraying my own paint, but I was too frightened of the nasty chemicals to feel confident trying it. For a while I thought I would just spray lacquer; not that it's healthy, but at least it's not as scary, and perhaps a std. 3M-style face mask would do. But then I learned they've taken the lead out of the lacquer and it's really poor quality now (not that it was ever super). So I'm back to urethane, and I am absolutely doing a fresh air suit.

I believe you that you've gotten away with a standard 3M-style mask; I have a friend who had his car sprayed by a guy who did just that (in his garage)...and survived apparently unharmed. :) I'm just too paranoid to try that.

Patricia

[mmooney84]

Well thats good if you want to use a fresh air system. I would probably use one too if I had the money to dish out 500 bucks. It just seemed like you didnt want to spend that much money on a spray gun so I didnt understand why you wanted to blow 500 bucks on a fresh air system. Be sure you have plenty of room if you go with the fresh air system because you dont want the hose accidently bumping the car.:D

[Len]

Well thats good if you want to use a fresh air system. I would probably use one too if I had the money to dish out 500 bucks. It just seemed like you didnt want to spend that much money on a spray gun so I didnt understand why you wanted to blow 500 bucks on a fresh air system. Be sure you have plenty of room if you go with the fresh air system because you dont want the hose accidently bumping the car.:D

Actually the systems start about $325 and if you only have one car to paint you can probably sell it on ebay for at least $200 when you're finished with it. Since spraying primers and paints can be a couple months apart you'll probably be purchasing 2 to 4 canister changes or masks (if you want them to protect you) so it could end up costing you almost much for less protection.

I've been using supplied air systems for about 20 years and never had the hose hit the car. I've had more trouble with my high pressure hose hitting the car than my breathing hose but I use a hood that has the hose running down my back and out of the way.

If you spray with a half mask canister type mask and then you spray with a supplied air hood you will soon realize how much better the supplied air system is. I realize it's a big expense but one complete paint job (using good materials) can cost you more in paint materials than the supplied air system would cost without selling it when you're done. The price you may pay for not using supplied air could be a deterioration in your ability to breath, I've seen it happen many times. I would rather see a person farm out the spraying to someone with the proper equipment than spray without taking the proper steps to protect themselves.