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Neal376
11-10-2006, 01:07 AM
Hello,
I am trying to have my vehicle repaired after a nasty encounter with a Curb

I just moved to the area and I did not know any body shops - so I took it to the nearest ICar shop listed.

The man who created the first estimate did a poor job - failing to see bent section of the suspension crossmember, deployed airbags, and a damaged wheel.

as a result, when they pulled the car out - the aftermarket wheels began to rub. he immediately pulled it back in (repainted the fender that was rubbed) and repaired the rear end (stated that the entire rear diff was canted too far to the drivers side)
The car is an Infiniti G35 - the shop specialises in Toyotas and GM's but he constantly refers to the vehicle as an "Exotic" and that if it were anyother automobile, they would be finished already.

Anyways, a 1/4 panel was replaced and the sheetmetal behind the rocker panel was repaired - but poorly. The fiberglass rocker itself fits just fine. I noticed that the paintwork behind the rocker was poor - not even buffed, when I inquired about it he responded "the rocker will cover it anyways, so its not a big deal" (so why did I pay you to repair it in the first place?)

I believe my 1/4 was installed to far foward. The rear bumper cover does not line up on the repaired side like it does on the clean side("covers never come out correct"). Also, the tailamp does not seem to line up as well - and the adhesive used to secure the 1/4 to the car is sloppy (seen next to the passanger taillamp) he states that welding is something of the past and adhesive is the primary bonding tool used in the shop. The fuel door sticks out a bit, as well as the rear passanger door. The Wheel well looks very sloppy - no doubt that anyone could tell this vehicle was repaired. They also replaced my shocks, knuckle, camber arm, toe arm - but the spring and spring seat still look bent (he stated taht after everything else is replaced, the bent spring will allign itself...but it has not)

anyways, this is the first vehicle repair that I am paying for out of the pocket. I wanted the job done as good as it is back in my home town...but they seem to be failing at doing so. It has been in the shop for 6 or 7 weeks now. I think I just have to take the car back home to my favorite shop to have the panels tweeked and repaired to OEM quality

I'm I being too ridiculous?

thanks for all your help, here is the links to the pictures I took yesterday. I pick up the vehicle friday.

http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1512954#post1512954

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/

JeffsCustomPaint
11-10-2006, 01:49 AM
Nope not at all if they are doing that they arent that good.I wouldn't accept
it till its right.It should be fixed to pre accident condition,I know i wouldn't
get away with that and I only do quality work for that reason.
I did a new BMW 745i in 2003 and it was side swiped.Car was black
the fender, front suspension,doors center post was all pushed in.
BMW builds the jambs as a uniside and the bodyshop i worked for didn't
let you section a part so the untouched 1/4 had to be removed to but the
uniside on which is the entire door jamb area and rocker. I replaced all the
seam sealers and duplicated them(special spray on sealer) and the painter
painted everything black and i resembled the car everything was new ,front
suspension and wheel/tire. went to the BMW dealer for alignment and inspection.
Bodyshop got a call,they wanted to know who the guy who fixed the car was,
boss called me in the office said the dealer called on the 745i
and they repeated what they said.Well i was nervous,but for nothing
told me it was the best repair they ever seen virtually undetectable
down to every detail,they never seen such a fine repair.Had they not known
about the wreck they would have swore the car was new still.
Made me feel good.Not everyone takes pride in their work but if
your not satisfied then i wouldnt accept it.Yes they bond quarters but you
have to glue them in the right position.some welding is suppose to be done
in the back seam and rocker pinch weld those are the tear zones.

sounds to me that they are substandard bodymen and thats typical these
days they are in it for the money and only put the time in the get paid if that.


Goodluck,but if you don't like it make them fix it.If they can't ,tell
them you want it discounted so you can take it somewhere to get it fixed right.

-Jeff

Neal376
11-10-2006, 09:17 AM
Thank you,

I cant believe that this shop took soo long yet did so little.

what do you think about the photographs?

dave_demented
11-10-2006, 09:38 AM
thats horrible that they'd do that to you... i agree with jeff have them re fix it

Neal376
11-10-2006, 09:56 AM
well thats the thing. I need the car to go home for thanksgiving!

I am just going to ask them to reduce the price and than bring it to my shop back in NY

Len
11-10-2006, 12:13 PM
When doing almost any repairs of this nature you should have a good idea of the cost before you start. However, on most severe damage, there are usually additional costs that occur as the work progresses and when this happens a "supplement" is generated. When an insurance company is involved they are notified if the work entails labor amounts and they will usually send an adjuster to evaluate the time needed to make the repair. If the supplement includes parts then the adjuster will ask to see invoices for those parts. Since you are paying for this repair yourself you need to be your own adjuster and tell the shop that you need copies of the invoices for additional parts that were not included on the original estimate and you want to see any additional damage that was not evident at the time the estimate was written. You won't be able to evaluate the time needed to make these repairs but at least you can see whether or not they are necessary.

From time to time I've been called as an advocate for people that were having cars repaired. I would visit the shop and look over the estimate and the vehicle to make sure that the customer was getting what they paid for. You may want to hire a person from another shop to accompany you to the car and evaluate the situation and give you some professional feedback.

Neal376
11-10-2006, 01:57 PM
thank you,

the shop manager gave me some lip today when he delayed it again.

- I said "too many sorries mark"

- he responded - "now your pressuring me, THATS IT, when it comes back from allignment monday we are not working on it again - we spent too much time and marked off too much work - gave you alot of free hours"


- I responded "OK, see you monday"

(I never spoke back to him like that ever: always said "take your time-allign the panels properly)

honestly, he should not be angre at me, instead his frustration should be directed towards himself. He made the original estimate - which was disastrously inaccurate. If he knew how long it would take, he should not have accepted the repairs.

Neal376
11-10-2006, 09:26 PM
I dont understand why body shop managers cant be people persons...

why are they so allusive and rude? why do they have to be so defensive?
do they recognise that I am paying them? (and he is being paid exactly what we agreed upon) what ever happened to customer service? This manager has yelled at me so many times and I have yet to address it. He takes out his frustration with the vehicle (which he promised he could repair) out on me...I dont know why.

I will have to address his attitude to his superiors. I dont know why this process has to be so nerve-racking
----
i have indeed met mechanics who were straight foward and kind - announced their mistakes and quickly compensated

JeffsCustomPaint
11-10-2006, 09:48 PM
Well if hes only a manager its' time you went to the owners of the business
cause in the end they are the ones are responsible for the repairs.
He is merely an employee and they are liable not him.I he does a bad job
or the workers doing the repairs then the owner should fire them and get
qualified help.they are responsible for the type of people they hire and
bottom line is if your not gettting good customer service and
satisfactory repairs then you need to be going to the top cause they are
the ones who are going to be liable and can either mke sure your satisfied
and get it done right or discount the repairs cause the work performed wasn't
right and they don't wish to keep dealling with it.Or it could be the person
if nothing is done that you would be suing if you so choose.
You gave the manager many chances to make it right and your are still not
satified with the work and now he has been giving you additude.
Go to the top and if that doesn't get you results i have two words for you.
BBB and Court

in my book Customer satisfaction should be job one,you can't please
everyone,but that should be priority and i don't think your being
unreasonasble cause there are alot of hacks out there that are glad
to take your money and they just don care,hopefully this isn't the case ith your car
but i have seen it all the time.I have been in this business all my life and
seen some real shoddy work.I have a reputation and thats why i make sure
its done right, my name is on every repair i do and i never had one person
disastisfied,if they didn't like something i toke care of it,not that there
was much for them to ever bring up but stuff happens but i'm always
willing to fix it so it's up to them if the have me do it right or take it the way it is.
I t's usually minor stuff and they may notice a little flaw in the paint that is
normal everyday occurance,it's hard to get them perfect but my work
is far superior then most.
hopefully this gives you some insight

Len
11-10-2006, 09:49 PM
I dont understand why body shop managers cant be people persons...

why are they so allusive and rude? why do they have to be so defensive?
do they recognise that I am paying them?

Neal, some managers are great guys that run excellent shops and do excellent work. The problem is that there's no way of knowing if you're in a good shop or a bad one until you've made a commitment.

One of the best collision shops in this area is Moorstown Auto Body, this is a mid-size shop with about 12 or so employees that turns out excellent work production work. Maybe when you find a shop you're happy with you can send it to us and we'll add it to a list of "good" shops. If anyone else has a recommendation for this list please send it. I'll put it in a file and, when I get time, I'll add a page to the site with all the names. Note: You must be a person who has posted on the board a few times in order to get a shop on the list.

Neal376
11-12-2006, 12:27 AM
thank you guys

I know some great shops with great customer service, and if I knew one of your shops I would definetely put it down on this list.

Its great to hear that customer service is top priorities in your shops - It should be!! even if something goes wroung, your great customer service can bring your clients right back for later business! :)

------------------------

I will definetely report this managers short-temper, irresponsible attitude to his superiors and his frank - lack of professionalism. I dont want to confront him anymore, but I hope his superiors could have a little chit chat with him so that he does not treat his future customers like he treated me. I think I will write a letter to his boss.

I will inform you all about the outcome

Neal376
11-13-2006, 12:46 AM
I told the manager that I wanted to keep the damaged quater panel (for practicing my buffing/polishing skills) and he said OK. but when I requested to pick it up, he said that someone may have thrown it away (which pisses me off)....

but I found this piece of law
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec1803.html

what can I do?? what is the penalty?

JeffsCustomPaint
11-13-2006, 02:30 AM
Neal it just depends on how much more you want to spend on this
ordeal.You certainly have the right totake them to courtif you so coose.
Is it worth it i'm not sure but i hope you tke alot of pics cause
you have the burdon of truth and do you have a copy of the written estimate
and signed repair order.In Florida there are clauses that have to be signed off
or wether or not you want th old parts saved and if you want to be notified
of any extras or repairs exceeding a certain cost.They do that to protect
the customer and if that was done and they didn't save the old part they
can be liable,but usually that pertains to proof that the replaced said part
which you know they did cause you said they did a shoddy repair.

anyway Good luck with the mess but you need to go to the owner and give them a chance to make it right before you take legal actoins . you will waste
alot of oney if the guy who owns the shop is willing to work with you to fix the situaion

Neal376
11-13-2006, 09:53 AM
^^^

that is very true. I will mention it and see if the owner will work with me.

yea, there have been times where a simple talk with the owner solved an entire dispute

Neal376
11-15-2006, 01:12 PM
EMERSON COLLISION, AUBURN MAINE
----

I get the car back - my rear window is not on all the way (water leaking into trunk) car is not alligned properly (right rear at -1.5 camber and left rear at -1.0) Interior pieces are all busted (rear seats are not reclining properly)and last but not least...Battery is BUSTED. Interior is rattling like an 88 caprice

call him up - he says he will NOT replace the battery and told me to go to infiniti to replace it under warranty. he said hes NOT spending any more time on it.


i'm sick of this shop. i'm going to have my vehicle repaired at the Infiiniti body shop than send these guys the bill. I'am going to report the managers attitude to his boss, file a report with the BBB and find an attorney.

Len
11-15-2006, 03:06 PM
If a shop did that to me I'd write a factual report and take out a half page ad in the local paper to show the puplic how I was treated. Shop name and manager's name included.

dfox1234
11-15-2006, 06:55 PM
Contact your state DMV, I know here in NY, DMV would get involved with this and more then likely, hammer this shop.
Dean

Len
11-15-2006, 07:17 PM
Contact your state DMV, I know here in NY, DMV would get involved with this and more then likely, hammer this shop.
Dean

That's an excellent idea Dean. The shop is probably licensed by the state and the state may shake them up enough to do the repair properly.

dave_demented
11-15-2006, 07:24 PM
i really like lens idea, maybe write up a report and bring a copy in to show him, and tell him you'll run it if he doesnt fix your car up properly.

Neal376
11-16-2006, 07:38 PM
hmmm...whats that factual report?

anyways. charge for repair is on credit card - so I will dispute the payments

my right rear wheel is tucked in too much and the left rear sticks out too much...also my right rear suspension is lower than my left. as I drove away, I felt the hum of a bad wheel bearing - - called up nissan yesterday and ordered a new one (before I take my long trip home - - hopefully the hum doesnt require anything else)

I tore my interior apart :eek: :eek: :eek: HORRIBLE!! they used an IMPACT WRENCH on my interior!!! bolts are STRIPPED pieces are BROOKEN - DENTED - MISSING the rattle I heard the day before was because MANY BOTLS WERE NOT EVEN SECURED. THIS IS THE WORST INTERIOR JOB I HAVE EVER SEEN they left some of their tools in the car! - - if you pull the run rubber - you can clearly see where seam sealer was used to secure the 1/4 (where is on the stock side, there is no seam sealer) the rear cover is WEIRD there is a huge gap between the tail lamp and the rear bumper + I think the taillamp is canted a bit.

- I thought ICAR meant something GUESS NOT

Neal376
11-16-2006, 07:43 PM
i'm gonna talk to him tomorrow - if he refuses to take responsibility i will just say "if you continue with your intransigencies, lack of respect for your customer, and your short temper - the next time you hear from me will be through my lawyer"

Phil V
11-16-2006, 08:43 PM
Neal, I am all for giving a shop the opportunity to do the right thing even after some minor problems. But your situation with that bodyshop is WAY beyond trying to work things out in any amicable way. First of all if they did what you say to your car then the last people that would be touching my car - would be them. If the initial experience with their quality control is that bad then you can't expect much better in the future. The ship has already sailed on them working on your car. What remains now is what are they going to be held accountable for (and to whom) ? Take your car as is to another shop that has a reputation for doing quality work. Show them what you feel are the shoddy workmanship areas done on your car and have them write you up an estimate of repairs to straighten out the mess the other shop did to your car. Its optional on your part whether you tell them or not where you had the previous work done. It wouldn't hurt to get a second estimate from even yet another shop that has a reputation for quality work (preferably a new car dealership body shop that sells and works on the same cars as yours). Take those two estimates back to the original shop and tell him you are affording him the opportunity to make things right - here and now - before you get the state inspectors involved as well as starting a civil law suit for the damages. The odds are he is going to tell you to go to hell but its a necessary step on your part that needs to be done BEFORE it gets in front of a judge in a civil suit. I've seen a few customers in the last three decades who would not be satified with any job regardless of how well it was done. You are not one of those people, you deserve what you payed for. If you don't get what you payed for then that body/paint shop has to answer to you (and to the state, and to a judge in a civil law suit).

Neal376
11-17-2006, 12:00 AM
thank you very much. I believe that will be my course of action

- I already wrote up an "affidavit"


To whomever it may concern,
I am writing this letter in response to the poor service I received while having my vehicle repaired at Emerson Collision (Auburn, Maine). My vehicle, a 2005 InfinitiG35x was involved in a accident involving a tall curb. I am new to the area (Lewiston Maine), so I contemplated sending my automobile back to Long Island New York where I know a reputable body shop. The vehicle waited outside my residence for three weeks. I decided sending my vehicle to the nearest auto body shop to receive an estimate just so I could have a somewhat clear idea of how much damage was underneath my vehicle and how much it would cost to fix. I suspected frame damage, suspension damage, a destroyed ¼ panel, and a damaged rocker panel. The interior was in perfect condition with the exception of the deployed airbags. Marc Morin, manager of Emerson Collision inspected my automobile. I asked him a few questions. He told me that they can repair all makes and models, and that the frame damaged could be fixed with their frame machine. He told me that his technician was a very experienced and Icar certified and I should have the utmost confidence in their abilities. I told Marc I brought the car to an Icar shop because I expected perfect repairs. The next week Marc and I discussed the repairs. He could not find any frame damage, and he said that my spring will straighten itself out once the shocks + camber and toe arms were replaced. He told me that he could start repairs as soon as possible. I told him that he could start repairs on the mechanical damage but I might be sending my vehicle back down to NY for the body work. Mark than complained that if I do that, he will charge me for the tow and estimate I used from them (I was under the impression that both were free) He convinced me that his collision specialists would be just as good if not better than any other shop. He told me that the shop was one of the only in Maine certified to repair 70,000 corvettes since they use a special form of welding. So I agreed to body work repair. Unfortunately, Mark failed to notice the deployed airbags, broken wheel, exhaust leak, and a bent “K frame” (he did not realize the K frame was bent until the first alignment attempt where the technician drove the car out of the shop and the wheel began to rub). Estimate was 2 weeks from the time they receive all their parts and began work. I was responsible for purchasing 2 shock absorbers and a camber arm – both of which were after market products. My parts were back ordered and delayed two weeks. I told Mark that quality, not time was my priority. The estimate was adjusted to include $200 more of labor (rocker panel). I inspected the vehicle, approved and signed the estimate. I told Mark that I was a little worried about the alignment of panels- his tone quickly became confrontational – he told me that I hassled him when I asked him only to perform the mechanical work. He also blurted that his technician does not appreciate my inspections of the vehicle – after his diatribe was over, he reassured me that the car would be perfect when I get it back. I reassured Mark that I wont pass any judgment on the vehicle until it is finished. He also notified me that the alignment machine could not accommodate the 19inch wheels on my vehicle and that he needed to export the service to a Toyota dealer. I gave Mark my previous alignment sheet and told him that as long as the vehicle was aligned to my specifications I would be happy. I also explained to mark that I wanted every damaged part including the quarter panel returned to me. Two weeks later, in a attempt to have the vehicle driven to alignment shop (now the work was being exported to a Ford dealer) The wheels on the vehicle rubbed the fender and Mark said the cause was a shifted K frame. (a few days before this he also notified me of another increase in the estimate of around $500 ...again due to the increased amount of time spent on the rocker panel). He stated that the rear end was shifted less than a ¼ inch to the drivers side of the car – as a result the passenger rear wheel was too far tucked in and the drivers side wheel was sticking out too far. Mark said he would fix this problem free of charge just because the vehicle has spent too much time in the shop and that it should take only 6 hours to repair. He said the car would be ready by the end of the week. I called up Mark that Friday (throughout this process, Mark never called me or returned my calls, even though he always promised to call me – I always had to call him – he only called on two occasions, once when the preliminary estimate was finished and once when vehicle was ready for delivery) Mark told me that they could not get the vehicle on the alignment machine since the technician was overbooked and instead of buffing my automobile, they spent the entire day towing it to the ford dealership(?) Mark, for the third time, told me that it would be ready next week. I told him that I was displeased since I made responsibilities to use my vehicle over the weekend and that Mark did not call me to notify that the vehicle was delayed yet again(it is now November9th) I did not shout, I did not yell, and I did not ridicule, I stated verbatim, in a calm manner “this has happened too many times Mark, you should have called me”. Once again, Mark through a needless temper. He told me that he will not work on my vehicle anymore regardless of the result of the alignment. He said they spent too much time on this vehicle and that it was difficult to repair – saying that the “aluminum body” was extremely difficult (too strong) to repair and work with. He told me that if it was any other Toyota, it would have been repaired quicker. Once again, he ridiculed me for my constant inspections and my desire to have the vehicle repaired neatly. After Mark was finished with his second tirade (he's monologue lasted a few minutes), I stated “OK, we will talk on Monday when the vehicle is ready”. Monday morning I called up Mark, he said the alignment came out fine with the exception of the front right wheel which had too much positive camber. He told me that the car was not cleaned or buffed but should be ready the next day. He told me that he would call me personally that afternoon. I did not receive any calls (he explained that he was getting surgery performed). Tuesday I call up again (after waiting most of the day for his phone call) He said the car was ready and he would call me up later to confirm. He did indeed call me up that afternoon and I stopped by Emerson to pick up my vehicle. I desperately needed the vehicle that Friday so I could go home to my family for Thanksgiving. When I got there, Mark told me to make a list of follow-up repairs. Their were scratches on the roof, scratches on the trunk, scratches in both the rear window tint and a side window tint, trunk not aligned properly, tail lamp not aligned properly, rear cover not aligned properly – Interior was poorly installed. The rear seats could no longer recline properly and lacked the padding that was used underneath them (basically a thick towel below the seats and above the sending units that I simple installed in 2 minutes). What really concerned me was the near 1000 repair to the sheet metal behind the rocker. Their were still dents in panel, the paint was running, and some of the paint wasn't even polished.

Neal376
11-17-2006, 12:00 AM
I asked Mark why this was not fixed to a quality standard we agreed upon; he said that the plastic side skirt would cover the damage so an entire repair would be redundant (then why did I pay him to repair the panel in the first place?). I told Mark that I would call up my window tint installer and see if he would warranty the scratches in the tint – I also told mark that I would reinstall the interior myself to save him the hassles. The right rear wheel was also too far tucked in and the left rear wheel was too far out – he would not fix nor diagnose what was causing this problem (before he said it was the “K frame” but the “free” repair did not seem to do anything) – he stated that he lacked the capability to measure or repair the frame. The car was also aligned to OEM specs and not to my special instructions (to align rear wheels both at -1.5 camber). The damaged ¼ panel that I instructed to be saved was thrown into the trash. Mark said he would honor all the other issues. He told me that he had to go home quickly for family reasons and could not take my vehicle for test drive. He said that I should drive it around for a week and bring it back after finding all the other issues. The vehicle did not start up and needed to be jumped. Mark stated that this was the first jump it needed and that it was probably because it was sitting around the shop for too long a time. I drove the vehicle away and immediately noticed a loud creaking sound in the rear, a strong steering pull to the right and a drone at highway speed that seemed to be a bad front right wheel bearing (just a safety concern). Once I reached my residence, I ran the car in park for about an hour. I turned the car off but it would not turn back on. I had a tow truck jump my car. I ran it again for another hour and 1/2 – but the car refused to produce any juice when I tried to turn it on again after turning it off. I called Mark the next day early in the morning. He told me that he would have my vehicle inspected and repaired at Emerson service since it was probably no big deal.(the shuttle boosted my vehicle). Service confirmed that my battery was fried and it needed replacement. Mark refused to repair the vehicle. He stated that even though many body shops destroy electrical equipment, he said it was highly unlikely that his technicians did so. He also said he would not repair the battery since it was under factory warranty (Infiniti would not replace my battery since the car came out of a body shop). I told him that no one was perfect and that his technicians could have easily made a mistake like how they scratched up my tints. I reminded him that I have the burden of truth. I also told him that Infiniti should not pay for a battery that his shop may more than likely damaged. I told him that after the accident, I started my vehicle numerous times and had no issues, but I had issues immediately after the car was returned to me from the body shop. Mark yelled “listen to me Neal, I WILL NOT PAY FOR THIS BATTERY” and than hung up on me without waiting for my response. I called up Emerson Service and told them that I will pay for the battery because I was in desperate need for a vehicle this weekend and that I would settle my financial dispute with the body shop at a later time. Emerson Service was very nice. They gave me a call once they found a battery, once Napa delivered the battery, and another time when I should come by to pick up the vehicle. Service told me that the first battery they received did not fit, but admitted that it was their mistake and not mine (so I would not be charged for it). The service representative I spoke with was very professional and courteous. That night I installed the plastic side skirts that body shop did not. I also rotated the tires and reassembled the interior. Many interior parts were damaged, not installed properly, or missing. I discovered that the rear seat area was rattling because the seats were not secured properly (bolts very loose). The bolts that were secured, were done so with an impact wrench at high torque and with great damage. I found that the sealant applied on the repaired side of the ¼ , the tail lamp, and the rear window was very sloppy. I discovered that numerous bolts, screws, tools and other miscellaneous items of such were scattered about my cabin. I also discovered that my spare wheel well was filled with about 3 inches of water. Altogether I spent close to four hours repairing the interior. By the next morning, the oil based gloss that was applied to my vehicles paint faded, and swirls/scratches began to appear. (on a side note, I own my own Random orbit polisher and I'm very careful with concerns to the quality and longevity of my paint)


Further Plans
- send this letter to Owner of Emerson Collision
take vehicle to Infiniti dealership-ask for estimate to repair every single damaged part
take estimate to Emerson
????

Neal376
11-17-2006, 12:04 AM
questions to ask:

- body shop complained that vehicle was difficult to repair b/c it was not something they were used to. however, Mark stated that he repairs all makes and models...in fact - it says that on his buisness card.
- If the shop was not capible of repairing my automobile, they should have notified me

-- if the broken battery was the cause of the accident, and that the body shop had to jump the car every time they turned it on...than why was it not either mentioned to me or included in the estimate (obviously shop owner is lying)

----the damage I claim should not be a problem since the shop should have insurance
-----
I believe the shop maybe taking advantage of my experiance - since this is the first time I needed to bring my vehicle in for repairs and I assumed that a quality shop should do a good job

I will dispute the payments on the CC

7T7
11-21-2006, 08:11 PM
Who do you have insurance with? If it is with one of the majors like State Farm go ahead and file a claim, it is not to late to take that hickey, it happens all the time where people get in an accident and then try to do the repairs themselves or pay for it out of pocket to keep their rates from going up, it is not worth the hassle. That is a very nice car that needs to be put back to it's pre-loss condition by someone who knows what they are doing. You have a diminished value claim on your vehicle against the shop because of the poor repairs, but first things first, you need help getting your vehicle fixed right. I know each state is different, but most laws are that you have 2 years to file a claim, so you can still file the claim even though you tried to mitagate your damages by trying to have the car fixed yourself, your insurance company "should" step in and help you by getting the vehicle fixed properly at a qualified body shop of your choice. Choose wisely. I know State Farm here in Texas wouldn't hesitate to step in and help out, they have for customers we know.

Neal376
11-26-2006, 10:56 PM
there is no police report --- is it still possible to file a claim and avoid premium hike?

I have heard that accident pop up on records (as you can tell, this is my first serious accident) such as when you apply for a loan...this is not true right?


basically, I hydroplanned and ran into a curb

Len
11-26-2006, 11:12 PM
there is no police report --- is it still possible to file a claim and avoid premium hike?

I have heard that accident pop up on records (as you can tell, this is my first serious accident) such as when you apply for a loan...this is not true right?

If you have an agent you can talk to then now may be the time. Call the agent and tell him that you didn't want to make a claim because you were afraid of a rate increase but things have gone bad and ask for advice. If he says things will only get worse ( I doubt that) then don't file a claim but he should be able to advise you as to the consequences.

Neal376
11-27-2006, 11:33 AM
^^^

sounds like a good idea.

bodymanhelper
11-27-2006, 06:24 PM
Hi all.....Im a bodyman helper at a honda dealer . It seems like either the guys didnt have experience or they just rushed the job. I never saw a car this bad.....Just take it back and have them do it over and get a discount.

Neal376
11-28-2006, 03:22 PM
here is an update

http://www.6mt.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19801

ionic_slim
12-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Any updates to this? Nice car!

Neal376
12-18-2006, 05:20 AM
well, I was cleaning out the trunk (I was actually re-assembling the interior b/c the body shop did a horrible job fitting pieces) and I discoverd something very peculiar...

the repaired quater panel is painted black...but the OEM panel is un-painted



this is the replaced 1/4
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0697.jpg


this is the OEM/Stock 1/4
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0698.jpg



you can also see why the interior pieces no longer fit properly....
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0704.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0703.jpg


I guess they did broke/bent some pieces trying to get the 1/4 in

Neal376
12-18-2006, 05:31 AM
I assume they painted it themselves....I dont know why

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0700.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/IMG_0701.jpg

Phil V
12-18-2006, 10:22 AM
Neal, thats not paint on the inside of the new quarter, its black rubberized undercoating. Actually better in the long run than the other side which is not undercoated.

Neal376
12-19-2006, 09:27 PM
Neal, thats not paint on the inside of the new quarter, its black rubberized undercoating. Actually better in the long run than the other side which is not undercoated.


yea, it felt rubbery (haha, amazing that you could tell from the pics)

alright, thats good news. I just wanted the collision to be undetectable b/c I am afraid all this will pull from the value. anyways thanks. here is some shots from my detail.

I dont understand why body shops always swirl up cars? they only washed it once!!! they managed to cause more damage in that one wash than all my personal washes combined!!

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0721.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0724.jpg

after
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0737.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0765.jpg

Neal376
12-19-2006, 09:31 PM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0738.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0761.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b85/Neal376/IMG_0758.jpg


there was some overspray on the head lamps as well...but came out easily with clay bar and PC w/ yellow pad.

the body shop paint was tough...but not too hard. Instead of my menzerna polish, i used 3M. The menzerna just did not bite at all into their paint. I always find the 1/4 the most important. Its usually the largest panel that you can see reflecting the sky from the side

pane2k
01-05-2007, 05:58 PM
You keep stating the point that the Light and bumper is misaligned, and the right side of the trunk(where the quarter was replaced)
I'm just hoping for your sake that it isnt actually the quarter that is misaligned.
From one of the pics, the line on the door and quater looks crooked too.
And if the 1/4 is misaligned..then it could cause the trunk, light, and bumper to fit poorly.
I just really hope thats not it, because it would be alot of work to correct that.

As far as someone noticing all this who wants to buy the car... Most people probably wouldnt. There are a few who know what they're looking at and would catch on, but a majority wouldnt notice.

I just cant believe shops like this get away with this shit and stay in business.

ngc414
01-06-2007, 08:19 AM
Just a comment on the insurance side. Every state is a little different and every insurance company underwrites a little different. Some companies go back 5 years some 3 years when underwriting renewal and new business. If this is you first claim and your MVR is good it will affect you very little. If you have had other accidents, claims or moving violations in the past 3-5 years it could affect you alot. The nature of the accident will also play a role. If you are not at fault or it is a comp claim it will have little impact. If it is an at fault accident it will have a much larger impact on rates when your policy renews. In any case its always best to call your agent.

jhowell
01-06-2007, 03:17 PM
Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's the picture quality, but I feel I should point out that the paint match between the bumper cover and the quarter panel is horrible. About the insurance. Making an insurance claim cannot have a negative impact on your credit rating. On the other hand, some insurance companies, like progressive say that having poor credit can justify a rate increase. I went through a period where my credit was at rock bottom and my rates never went up (but I also have State Farm.) So that's a crap shoot.

ngc414
01-06-2007, 06:35 PM
Turning in a claim will certainly not affect personal credit. But your personal credit score does have an impact on your insurance rates. When insurance companies pull credit it does not show up as a hit like when trying to get a loan. This way it has no adverse affect on your credit when you get an insurance quote. Like I said all companies underwrite a little different, but they all look at credit. Your credit is only part of what impacts rates. Past claims and moving violations also impact the rates. Most companies only adjust their rates at renewal time. Since they are all a little different and offer different percs it is impossible to determine how the claim will affect your rates unless you talk to your agent. He knows your history and your company. Of the six companies I represent in my agency the biggest impact on rates are at fault claims, CREDIT, and moving violations. You can usually get away with one at fault claim or moving violation in an underwriting period, but any more than that and rates start climbing fast. Sorry, didnt mean to turn this into a insurance thread.

Neal376
01-08-2007, 04:27 PM
hey guys.


I dont think they blended the rear cover :confused:

at one point the manager said "the rear covers never line up correctly" is that acceptable?


anyways, I will call up the shop and ask to speak to someone else besides the body shop manager. He gave me a sense of hostility last time I spoke to him.


they had to "adjust" the rear trunk lid and the rear passanger door to match the panel. wouldnt that mean that the quater was installed improperly?

god, I hope they didnt use an aftermarket panel...

Neal376
01-10-2007, 07:03 PM
dam...everytime it rains my spare wheel well fills with water...any ideas?

jhowell
01-10-2007, 07:51 PM
Call your insurance agent or find an attorney. It seems that you can't make the shop fix the car properly so it's time to get someone who is more forceful involved. What was the total repair bill anyway?

Len
01-10-2007, 10:48 PM
You should be done talking with the shop, it's not going to make your car right. If you received an estimate for the repairs dig it out and call a lawyer.

AutobodyCAD
01-11-2007, 12:01 PM
Yeah, wow, I'd never do business with this shop again.

What's the name of the place? Seems like they deserve a Better Biz Bureau ding.

Neal376
01-12-2007, 01:40 PM
wait...so does "body adjustments" mean that it was installed improperly?

AutobodyCAD
01-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Well... it sure seems like everything they COULD do wrong, they did - doesn't it?

Neal376
01-12-2007, 03:09 PM
I just called em up and asked to speak with the boss instead. for now on, I will speak to the boss instead of the manager. I guess I am making some headway

Neal376
02-03-2007, 01:29 PM
alright, good news.

I spoke with the owner, and he was dead-set on making sure I was satisfied. The body shop managers tone was a sea-change. He became much more respectful. They repaired and fixed all the issues with my vehicle no questions asked. no argument nothing. not only did they fixed it, but they gave me a complementary kit of 3M polish (they know I'm big into taking care of my paint)


I will take final pictures later when my camera is in working order. For now, all I need to do is to instal new airbags and fix a wheel hub. I will also line the interior with insulation material like dyna-mat to hide any evidence of damages

I have a few critiques about the body work
A) every panel the 1/4 comes in contact with had to be adjusted (exception of the rear window) the rear passanger door, and the trunk lid. They are all alligned perfectly now, however, their is a gap between the tail lamp and the rear cover. This is strange b/c the rear cover seems to be in the proper place. I will assume that the tail lamp mounts are damaged and the entire lamp needs replacing. I will try to instal my friends tail lamp and see if that is the issue

B) the paint looks different!!! the new 1/4 has much less orange peel than the OEM side----it looks different none the less

Hurst
02-03-2007, 07:04 PM
Glad everything worked out. Does the paint match this time?

7h33f
02-20-2007, 03:18 AM
hello everyone, first post here...

at least now i don't feel all alone... it seems i'm in the exact same boat as Neil. ironically enough, i'm from NY as well and had no recommendations for a local body shop.

anyway, my Xterra was about 2 months old, 10,000 miles, was washed maybe 6 times total, flawless original paintjob, never waxed or buffed, peeled the stickers off myself.

i could upload some pictures before and after the incident, but i haven't taken any shots of the completed repair. i saw it today, after 34 days at Augusta Collision Center, Maine. it was the worst decision of my life, or maybe it's just my luck...

the accident involved a Buick and a tree branch. the heaviest damage is pretty much within a foot radius of the driver's side fender. the Buick impact was very light, but it pushed me off the road and into knee deep snow. i didn't really lose control and was going to avoid hitting the tree in front of me, except i got swiped again by the fuel tank door. even though i still missed the trunk of the tree , the lowest branch basically entered my headlight, right above the bumper, so the airbags didn't deploy, tore up the hood to the point that it cracked the windshield, destroyed my radiator/intake/abs block and so on. the driver's fender got hooked onto the same branch and was ripped right off, so it's bent my door hinges!

my first instinct was to take it to the dealer's body shop, (since there was no way i could tow it to NY) but just like Neil's shop manager, Carl the owner/manager has assured me that his "family business" has a reputation like no other shop in the area, eventually telling me i'll be sorry if i hand it over to Lee's Collision in Auburn. he said i'd have the opportunity to hang out at the shop whenever i want, thus having a lot more control over the process than at a dealer's shop. i bought it.:(

got an $8,500 estimate and signed the papers the next day. told them to take their time with the job, since the insurance covered a rental for 30 days. long story short, i got a bad feeling and realized what i did only a couple of days later, when i saw my vehicle with it's hood and the bumper cover removed and a foot of snow built up on top. small thing really, but if you consider the fact that they left the battery connected the whole time, it just shows ignorance...

the body work was complete in about a week. when i saw the paintjob i was speechless. every 05 or newer Nissan comes with those invisible stoneguards, which is just clear film on the rear fender and rear doors. well... the guy painted over them. right then and there i knew it wasn't gonna be the only body shop in Maine i'll have to deal with...

he offered to fix it, of course, and again i gave him that chance. paint job redone, except this time they've repainted my passenger fender, which was absolutely flawless, not to mention the rear door on the driver's side. keep in mind, that the hood/bumper/radiator is still off at this point and the only flaw i spotted besides the paintjob, was how the door was not flush with the fender, by maybe an eighth of an inch. when i mentioned it, i was told no worries, it's just a minor adjustment. 3 weeks later it's still not flush. in fact, every single piece they've removed and replaced is not fitted properly, either too deep or sticking way out. the hood is actually crooked.

i was supposed to pick it up today. the insurance company's appraiser was there at the time to write up a second check for a few unforseen expenses. when i showed him all the flaws, he just nodded and then went inside the office with the owner for a few minutes. they came out with a piece of paper and said they'll make a list and make sure i'm happy by tomorrow. while discussing how to take care of all the flaws - a total of 3 horrible scratches, realignment of all pieces, and another coat for the rear quarter panel, Carl started refusing to attempt to fix things one by one.

the passenger side of the edge of the hood is about an eighth below the fender edge, while the driver's side edge is an eighth above the fender line. his exact words were: "I have zero control over this!"

finally, when i checked out the "backpass" line i got totally upset and said i want the whole thing redone, but by then it was clear that there won't be any more painting, and the appraiser agreed.

tomorrow is supposedly the final check. i either take it, or start the whole "unsatisfied" process. it was too late to call my adjuster today, but another one has told me they can send out a specialist to evaluate the repair(more like damage).

i can't sleep because i keep thinking about this. am i gonna end up in court with this guy or will the insurance pay for the do-over at another shop? any advice is greatly appreciated, and most importantly - i have no idea where to take it still! i wouldn't want this to happen again i don't think...

Phil V
02-20-2007, 09:45 AM
At this point what would it take for you to walk away from this experience a happy consumer ?

7h33f
02-20-2007, 11:03 PM
At this point what would it take for you to walk away from this experience a happy consumer ?
the original look?

...but i guess i'm over it. they've repainted the quarter panel and reapplied the sticker under the rear door. at least that's done with. there still isn't a straight line between the front and rear door bottom edges. the hood still isn't perfect as far as elevation, though it does seem well centered. one scratch got buffed out. one still there and "will be worked on", and one new paint imperfection about a half inch wide on a flat surface of the quarter panel. i haven't actually seen in it in broad daylight.

theoretically, i could keep bringing the car in there for years, if i keep finding stuff. i'm planning to stop by a couple of places tomorrow and get an idea on what could be improved.

my adjuster is absolutely useless, btw. i don't think they'll give me more money if they come to check out the job. they said a specialist could come out and determine whether it was done up to standard.

the only thing i'm upset about is that my whole passenger side was undamaged, and they ended up painting the fender and buffing out the front door to get a match with the hood. and the backpass line is a little rough. other than that and a few tiny dings in the paint, i'm already a happy customer. though the look original is not...

SHOWCAR FINISH
02-24-2007, 04:08 AM
Hello,
I am trying to have my vehicle repaired after a nasty encounter with a Curb

I just moved to the area and I did not know any body shops - so I took it to the nearest ICar shop listed.

The man who created the first estimate did a poor job - failing to see bent section of the suspension crossmember, deployed airbags, and a damaged wheel.

as a result, when they pulled the car out - the aftermarket wheels began to rub. he immediately pulled it back in (repainted the fender that was rubbed) and repaired the rear end (stated that the entire rear diff was canted too far to the drivers side)
The car is an Infiniti G35 - the shop specialises in Toyotas and GM's but he constantly refers to the vehicle as an "Exotic" and that if it were anyother automobile, they would be finished already.

Anyways, a 1/4 panel was replaced and the sheetmetal behind the rocker panel was repaired - but poorly. The fiberglass rocker itself fits just fine. I noticed that the paintwork behind the rocker was poor - not even buffed, when I inquired about it he responded "the rocker will cover it anyways, so its not a big deal" (so why did I pay you to repair it in the first place?)

I believe my 1/4 was installed to far foward. The rear bumper cover does not line up on the repaired side like it does on the clean side("covers never come out correct"). Also, the tailamp does not seem to line up as well - and the adhesive used to secure the 1/4 to the car is sloppy (seen next to the passanger taillamp) he states that welding is something of the past and adhesive is the primary bonding tool used in the shop. The fuel door sticks out a bit, as well as the rear passanger door. The Wheel well looks very sloppy - no doubt that anyone could tell this vehicle was repaired. They also replaced my shocks, knuckle, camber arm, toe arm - but the spring and spring seat still look bent (he stated taht after everything else is replaced, the bent spring will allign itself...but it has not)

anyways, this is the first vehicle repair that I am paying for out of the pocket. I wanted the job done as good as it is back in my home town...but they seem to be failing at doing so. It has been in the shop for 6 or 7 weeks now. I think I just have to take the car back home to my favorite shop to have the panels tweeked and repaired to OEM quality

I'm I being too ridiculous?

thanks for all your help, here is the links to the pictures I took yesterday. I pick up the vehicle friday.

http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1512954#post1512954

http://s137.photobucket.com/albums/q219/Neal516/

that's bad work. You're supposed to make sure all the panels are alligned properly w/ matching gaps. And it's so easy to allign them there's no excuse for that. Not sure of standard protocol for buffing rockers but I do know buffing is an added expense, so as a customer I'd expept the entire car to be buffed too. Sounds like they have lousy mechanics and body men. I wouldn't hold the estimate thing against them cause it could have been a supplemented later. When you do suspension work you're supposed to test drive it and have enough time for tweaks if needed before pick up. That mistake cost you a visit and maybe cancelled plans. Leaving a bent spring on your car isn't "pre-accident condition". You should have gotten a new strut/spring and a realignment. "pre accident condition" is a powerfull term that any person dealing with insurance companies should know. Say the words and your car will be fixed. Your car may have not been fixed to preaccident condition partially due to a second estimate by the insurance company.

Phil V
02-24-2007, 09:41 AM
"pre-accident condition" is a myth and logically is unatainable. The more serious the initial damage the more visually obvious the saying holds true. My point being that if a car is hit hard enough to bend the frame and bend sheet metal that will be repaired then those parts will be physically damaged for as long as that car is around. We can put bondo on a damaged/repaired panel but some degree of damage is still there, its just the bondo and new paint create an optical illusion where the damage is no longer visual. The same for a bent frame, I can pull a bent frame back to factory measurement specs but there will remain some visual damage like ripples, high and low spots that will be there permanently in that frame. Again it can be hidden with bondo or spray undercoating but that doesn't change the fact that the frame was damaged and repaired. When a car is hit hard enought to bend a frame and damage say a quarter panel then the REAL damage goes much further than that. Metal around spot welds will be stretched in areas much further than the obvious visual damage. Undercoating and seam sealed seams will crack and spread apart to different degrees which serve as areas for new rust to start. A good body/frame man will inspect the car closely on a frame rack and reseal those areas but its impossible get all those areas because some are in inaccessible areas, inside boxed tubes etc. So my point is - if you or someone else wrecks a vehicle then nothing short of an act of God is going to put that car back in pre-accident condition. It will simply be a repaired damaged vehicle for the rest of that cars existance.

What comes to mind is the guy that has the low mileage I think Nissan Xterra that sustained moderately serious damage. He has been brainwashed by the insurance companies that his car/truck will be repaired to "like new conditon". Thats simply an illusion or hoping for wish fullfilment on his part.
That truck will be a repaired wreck for the remainder of its existance, nothing can ever change that. If he wants a vehicle that was never wrecked then he needs to sell that repaired truck and go buy a new one that never has been wrecked. You can beat a dead horse but its not going to get up and run again.

Neal376
05-14-2007, 11:27 PM
words of hope ^^^:(


yes - if it is not "pre-accident" than it should still be up to visual standards.

I think misalligned panels and scratches are not up to standards as I have seen the work done by my shop back home and i know they would never send a vehicle back as such.

i mean...once my shope resprayed my entire car no questions asked! they understood the imperfections and i didnt have to raise my voice! the shop I delt with in maine gave me issues for every single one of THERE mistakes no matter how minor. apparently they think their techs are perfect

7h...the similarities in our stories are eerie!

i took my car down to bill dodge for an allignment. they screwed that up too! this entire state is incompetent