I need grocery list for compound/cut/polish

[Hannibal]

Well, heres the deal: (Please be patient its kinda wordy)

3 good coats of nason select clear 48 hours old (11/1/06 9PM CST)
I had some runs and sags and a few bugs so I got a nib file and smoothed them down. I also have some 600-1000-1500 grit (3M) that I am going to use to flatten everything. (all this before I tackle other color on this two tone job)

The people at the supply house were saying that I will need to buff the clear after wetsanding with 1500. They have an entire wall of bottles, compounds, wheels, etc etc etc . They reccomended 3M buff pads, and 3m compound, and then someother 3M product after that. They were showing me 2 different pads I need. One is a 3M compound pad (black and looks like an egg carton kinda) and the finish pad was green I think (same egg carton shaped too).

These pads were a hookit system. I have a makita 9227C, and a Porter cable G100A in my arsenal already. Would these 8" pads work on my makita? I do have a hook and loop backpad but it is not 3M, will it stick to my backplate? And they also asked if the paint is new or old? I will probably answer that is old just because I am going to be taking my time sort of. And I figure if it is more aggressive all the better.


MY CLEAR IS ALL UGLY from sanding!! WIll I get the shine back after I compound?? UUUGGHHH!! Sorry for long post.

I have read every post on this site untill my eyes were blurry. I have been a member since april JUST FOR THIS PROJECT!!

Thanks!!

[glenn kreger]

If you have been reading posts since April, how come you haven't considered Sure Finish/ True Finish? It sounds like you have most of the tools. Ask Robert what you will need. 1500 discs, and Sure Finish is all I used and I am pretty satified...Believe me, I am not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to simplify a process that can be a lot of work but the Sure Finish and the 1500 sanding discs make short work of it and does a great job.....GlennK

[casey]

Well the newest 3m "system" is PerfectIt 3000 (I think) and it's ok , it will get your shine back but it's not the friendliest stuff I ever used , and they have the old standby Finesse It II which is the closest they come to a one stage polish. I have used Perfect it 3000 rubbing followed by Finesse it, then remove swirls with Mequiars products and a Porter Cable 7336 Did you notice 3M stuff is expensive ?!!! Presta products and Evercoat make products that work as well (or better) for less money.

I really want to try the Sure Finish Len sells , but I have so much money invested in product sitting in my cabinets that I really can't justify another order for polish and pads right now. Before I found this forum I relied on my jobber for advice - he has probably not polished fresh paint in 10 years, hence the cabinet full of so-so product.



They were showing me 2 different pads I need. One is a 3M compound pad (black and looks like an egg carton kinda) and the finish pad was green I think (same egg carton shaped too).

I'm not wild about the egg crate style pads , 3m or others they sling a LOT of material , even at low speed. I like Meguiars pads , they have 3 levels of foam , cutting(W7000) ,polishing(W8000) and (rarely needed) finishing(W9000) , most folks can find someplace locally to buy Meguiars stuff. You may want to start with a wool pad , it can bring you back to a shine quicker than foam.

Pretty much all the velcro style pads will work with the backing plate you have, I've never run into one that didn't.

Ray

[Len]

We've been doing this process for a long time on most of the jobs we paint and find that it works great every time.

We use a good palm sander like the Airvantage (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AVS61100S&Category_Code=T2) with a hook and loop pad, an interface pad (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M5274c&Category_Code=T2) and 1500 Finishing Film (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M0950&Category_Code=M3) to level the surface.

After sanding we use a Makita 9227CX3 (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MAK9227CX3&Category_Code=T2)with a 6" backing plate, Sure Finish orange foam pad (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SFPADS&Category_Code=T2) and Sure Finish polish (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SF&Category_Code=M3)to bring back the gloss and remove the swirls. It's simple and only these few items are needed, when using Sure Finish, to do the job properly.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/SF1.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SF&Category_Code=M3)

[stealth1]

I agree with Casey about the 3M egg crate buffing pads, they suck big time. They leave swirls marks like no other foam pad I have used. It's hard to go wrong with Meguiars, just make sure to get one of their foam cutting/buffing pads and a soft foam for the micro-finish compound or glaze you use.

I have not tried the True Finish so I cannot comment on that product but I have been using Transtar's Tri-cut lately and really like it, not as oily as some of the 3M compounds. Transtar Tri-cut can be used as an aggressive cutting compound or a micro-finish compound with a softer foam pad.

1. Foam cutting/buffing pad and a softer foam pad for finish work (Meguiars pads should work and are widely available)

2. Good compound like Meguiars or Transtar Tri-cut or even the 3M Perfect it compounds.

3. A finish compound like 3M Imperial Micro-finishing compound or Meguiars 2# with the soft foam or the Transtar Tri-cut with a soft foam pad

4. Then hit it with a random orbit buffer with a soft foam pad and some pure polish like Meguirs 7# to remove any minor swirls and replenish any lost oils in the paint.(make sure whatever product you use is body shop safe, with no silicone or wax)

5. Then if you want to later after the paint has cured and your done painting, use a good pure carnuba wax like Meguiars 26# etc.

There are many ways to get the shine back and many different products out there but all the products I have listed are widely available and should do the job well...........best of luck with your project........

[Hannibal]

I have some contours around the truck that I worry about when I go to compound. If I sand around these areas, will I be able to get a buff pad in there to remove the sanding marks? There is a 2" valley that extends all the way down the truck (1977 ford f150) and I would hate to have to hand polish all that.

Thats why I was thinking the egg carton looking pad might be able to reach in there better.

I have all the megs pads exept the first one (red I think) I buffed a gas tank door tonight with an 8006, and an 9006 using meguiars #83, followed by #81 (or vice versa) the most aggressive one was used first.


What would be best for contours etc? I was warned about using wool as I might burn.

[Hannibal]

how come you haven't considered Sure Finish/ True Finish? I am not trying to be a smart ass

I dont have time or money to try every single product I hear about or see. I am only working on one project. I have never heard of sure finish. I just thought there would be something that is a standard in the industry, thats all.

As an electrician, when someone asks what tool to buy, I tell them GET A KLEIN!!! WHat kind of service entrance equipment? SQUARE D!!! What kind of metering tools? FLUKE!! Most electricians agree on products, ones worth their salt anyway., but apparanetly not so in the automotive finishing world :confused:

I was just trying to save a little time and money thats all.

I found out this week my wife is going to have our first child!! :p So I am all of the sudden on a project diet!! I gotta finish this thing quick!!! Before she tells me to quit!!

[stealth1]

If you have contours that you can't reach then only sand where you can buff, the corners and contours and edges of panels should be avoided for a daily driver and will not be noticed after you finish sanding and buffing.

The contour you speak of on your Ford truck I would usually sand and buff but to do so you would tilt the buffer pad to get in there and it requires experience on knowing how much pressure and what speed etc, so it is best to just leave it if your not familar with buffing and just lightly buff it when you are buffing the truck.

As far as pads go I would stick with foam cutting/buffing pads and the Meguiars red one is for cutting/buffing and is more aggressive than the yellow pads. While wool has it's place and on some harder clears it is needed, on Dupont Nason you should be just fine using foam and a little water spritz occasionally on the panel your buffing to keep the surface lubed and less chance of buring through..........

[Henry]

I really want to try the Sure Finish Len sells , but I have so much money invested in product sitting in my cabinets that I really can't justify another order for polish and pads right now. Before I found this forum I relied on my jobber for advice - he has probably not polished fresh paint in 10 years, hence the cabinet full of so-so product.

Ray
Sorry and don't take this wrong but what you just said is like having every tool to do the bodywork and have it done then say after all that expense you don't want to invest in the paint.......
You would be making a big mistake not to get one of the most important items you need to make all you effort pay off.
Get you Sure Finish and the right pads; THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!!! Henry

[Hannibal]

what is sure finish? A compound cream, or sanding disk?

And what is finishing film?

Thanks Henry

[Jeff Walker]

what is sure finish? A compound cream, or sanding disk?

And what is finishing film?

Thanks Henry

Go back and read what Len posted on this thread. There is even a pic of the sure finish. If you click on the finishing film words on that post it will also link to to a better description of that. I haven't used the sure finish product (yet), but I have used the finishing finishing film with the interface pad and a good DA and really liked how it worked.

[X711]

Hannibal.

You want great results without the research then get the following !

1 Norton Finishing Film Kit.
http://www.nortonautomotive.com/Data/Element/Node/Category/Category_edit.asp?ele_ch_id=C0000000000000001742

2 Presta Ultra Cutting Compound Light
3 Presta 1500 Polish
4 Presta Yellow Wool Pad
5 Presta Green Wool Pad

Your finished results will be like a mirror.

I prefer to use wool pads as opposed to foam pads. The foam pads have
a habbit of jumping around on the surface as you polish. Now im sure most
folks will disagree with me but imho the foam pads are junk regardless of the
brand.

><

[Hannibal]

Go back and read what Len posted on this thread. There is even a pic of the sure finish.

Been there, done that. :rolleyes:

I guess I wasnt clear in my post. That picture looks like every other product in every supply house here in town (multiplied by 250 or more products).


What I want to know is, what is the "film" in finishing film? Is it a compound FILM, a FILM sanding disk? The reason I ask is that I looked at a link on Ebay for finishing film, and shows a stack of what appear to be SANDING DISKS, labeled FINISHING FILM.

SO I remain unsure of what finishing film is. Is it a brandname, a liquid compound or a freakin sanding disk??:mad: :mad:

[dave_demented]

maybe this will help ya (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M0950&Category_Code=M3)

[Hannibal]

:) OMG!! That would be great if I had some of those!!

SOOooooo finishing film is not a "film" its a sanding disk.

I have an electric Porter Cable DA (G100A) would i be able to use those dry? Or I could wet the panels lightly, would that be ok??

OHHHH man I hope they have some locally. That would save so much work.

(PS Thanks Dimented:))

[casey]

Hannibal , I'm sorry if I confused your issues even more , since you already have & know Meguiars and you seem to want to go quick & local a bottle of #1 Medium cut compound or bottle of #85 diamond cut 2.0 on a W7000should bring you back really quick and cheaper than a bunch of expensive 3M stuff, then you can finish any iffy hazey spots with #83 rotary and a polishing pad.

Finishing film is velcro backed 1500 sandpaper for a short throw DA that will takes hours if not days off the wetsanding method. Your PC should run it , use it on speed 1 or 2 , no higher !

Ray

[casey]

Sorry and don't take this wrong but what you just said is like having every tool to do the bodywork and have it done then say after all that expense you don't want to invest in the paint.......
You would be making a big mistake not to get one of the most important items you need to make all you effort pay off.
Get you Sure Finish and the right pads; THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!!! Henry


Henry , I can get a mirror finish with the products and tools I have , what SureFinish sounds like it would do for me is reduce the inventory and make it easier for me to get to the mirror finish, I'm not gonna toss hundreds of dollars of product to save some labor , when the time comes that i'm getting low , I'll order some Sure Finish.

Ray

[dave_demented]

:) OMG!! That would be great if I had some of those!!

SOOooooo finishing film is not a "film" its a sanding disk.

I have an electric Porter Cable DA (G100A) would i be able to use those dry? Or I could wet the panels lightly, would that be ok??

OHHHH man I hope they have some locally. That would save so much work.

(PS Thanks Dimented:))


yea from what i understand theyre amazing and your porter cable liek what casey said, should wokr jsut fine. just make sur eyouve got the rite pad for it, len also sells them

[Hannibal]

Oh that is such great news. Thank you!!

Yes I am familair with meguiars stuff. I have always been a detail enthusiast, but lwanted to learn auto painting. I am restoring my very first truck I bought 15 years ago.

I will post some pics, but not untill I remove all those sags, bugs, and after I nib, sand, buff and polish......Then I can say I sprayed it on like that :D

WHat??? :D :D

[casey]

Yeah I forgot , like Dave said , finishing film needs an interface pad like this
http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M5274&Category_Code=M3

The interface pad will go on the pc backing pad and the finishing film goes on the interface pad.

Ray

[Hannibal]

Cool!! I will look for some of those today. I have some time this weekend to do this.

I noticed something while nibbing a few runs: I smell unactivated clearcoat ist seems. I mean the clear is hard but when I sand it it smells like the day I sprayed. Should I let it cure after "opening up" the clear (by sanding etc) before buffing?

[Jeff Walker]

Sorry Hannibal, I didn't mean to be a smart-alek.:o Yes the finishing film and interface pad is a BIG timesaver. I used it wet, not dry as that is what I was told to do. What I did it used a spray bottle to wet the panel. It works great! Here a pic of the car I used the finishing film on.http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/68gtoracer/000_0657resize.jpg

[Len]

Yes, the Finishing Film works when used wet but the thing to remember is that you can NOT see the result of your sanding until you wipe the water off the surface. Using it dry the dust that is generated will act as a guide coat showing you exactly how much orange peel is left and you can see when you need to stop sanding.

[Hannibal]

Well, I did one side of the truck. There was a learning curve to be had though. I had to buy a whole box of 1500 finishing film, an interface pad, a backing plate for my DA (hookit II), some Diamond cut 2.0. Total damage was almost $90.

So I got after it. I used a spray bottle (added a tad of soap for lube) and sanded. It worked great!! But now I am having trouble, I think getting back a true high gloss. I mean the untouched side is glossy but has runs and orange peel. The side I worked on today is very flat, No runs (95% removed), but I cant seem to get the true high gloss I was wanting.

I ended up using a wool pad on my makita 9227C, with diamond cut 2.0, followed by #81 dual action compound/polish. I mean it came out glossy, but it is not "Popping" like I hoped. My wife was like wow!!! But I am kind of like ehh.... its ok.

Should I finish with the DA? I have the W8006 Soft foam pads for my DA, so I am thinking I would probably run the thing all over when the rest of the truck is painted.

Any thoughts?? Thanks BTW for all the help, now I just need some buffing 101

[Len]

If the paint isn't real hard OR it hasn't been polished (cut) enough after sanding it will appear dull. Some polishes will give the appearance of enough polishing but they actually fill the dullness with oils that are used as a lubricant in the polish. Go back to your cutting compound and take a little more of the finish off to see if it helps bring up the gloss.

When you begin polishing it can appear that you're finished quickly because the sanding scratches will cut quickly at first but as you get closer to perfection it takes much longer to gain just a little gloss. This is because you initially cut the peaks off the scratches but as you get further toward the valleys the cutting takes much longer. If you add lubricating oils that help hide the buffing result it can appear to be polished but as the oils dissipate or get washed off the dullness will reappear. One of the reasons I like Sure Finish is that it minimizes the oil factor.

[Hannibal]

Go back to your cutting compound and take a little more of the finish off to see if it helps bring up the gloss.

I had much better luck the second time around. I used meguiars diamond cut 2.0. I am going to leave the final polish step when the second color is done this week. I just wanted the paint to be cut so it can cure evenly. Also It was easier I think than if I waited. I am trying to be the weather.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, Len. I hope to have some pics soon.