PDA

View Full Version : Oh no!!!!! the rain ruined my paint!! :(



slipchuck
09-13-2006, 03:44 PM
Hi again guys.
I just discovered that after a heavy rain last night, my new paint job looks ruined! It looks like (and I am hoping) just the last coat got it. the paint underneath still seems a little soft (unsure if it is effected as well). A few good days of sun to dry before I tackle it or does it matter?

It is bubbling and cracking/pealing in spots, bumpy and dull in the rest.

where should I start? should I wait how long before I do something with it?
paint is 2 days old.

would a aggressive buffing coundpound work? then hit is with fine, then swirl eliminator?
or do I have to sand it all down again?
with what, start at 1000 grit?

darn darn darn :)

thanks for the help

randy

Roch_Greg
09-14-2006, 01:19 AM
That wouldn't be that prudy blue truck your working the door on would it?

From your other threads I see you use Marine arkyd enamel paint. Len or Robert said something about it staying soft for awhile but I didn't think it would be that soft.

I've only shot BC/CC systems and have never had that probelm even washing and wetsanding the same day as painting.

To me cracking and peeling sounds like something got under the paint.

Anywho Len or Robert (who advised you in your thread about buffing this paint) seem to have some experience with it, I'd pm one of them if they don't hit this thread.

Where it's bubbling and cracking I'm thinking that's going to be shot. Depending on how many coats you have on there you may be able to sand it smooth again but compound or polish is not the tool for this type of correction. At least not initially.

Like Robert said in the other thread, don't dry sand, use water.

Damn what a shame

slipchuck
09-14-2006, 02:38 PM
That wouldn't be that prudy blue truck your working the door on would it?

From your other threads I see you use Marine arkyd enamel paint. Len or Robert said something about it staying soft for awhile but I didn't think it would be that soft.

I've only shot BC/CC systems and have never had that probelm even washing and wetsanding the same day as painting.

To me cracking and peeling sounds like something got under the paint.

Anywho Len or Robert (who advised you in your thread about buffing this paint) seem to have some experience with it, I'd pm one of them if they don't hit this thread.

Where it's bubbling and cracking I'm thinking that's going to be shot. Depending on how many coats you have on there you may be able to sand it smooth again but compound or polish is not the tool for this type of correction. At least not initially.

Like Robert said in the other thread, don't dry sand, use water.

Damn what a shame

thanks for the replies so far.

It looks like I have to strip the paint off, hopefully not the whole truck but down the whole right and left side from the cab back.
some of the paint lifted like wall paper, and the only spots that seemed to hold were the ones that wasn't as exposed to the rain.
when I lift the paint, I can see the tiny water moisture spots underneath.

I bought a heat gun which is helping a lot.

anyone have any idea how long it would take for the moisture to get out of primer?

any easy way of getting it out? (would metholydrate/gas line anti-freeze) be a dumb idea?

any help would be welcome, as I really don't want to strip right down to the metal and have to do bondo again.


thanks

Phil V
09-14-2006, 04:57 PM
Inspect the paint close and see what actually failed (primer or paint). If you chip a bubble off see if there is primer on the backside of that chipped bubble. If there is primer then you know it was the primer that failed. If you chip a paint bubble off and see no primer on the backside of the paint chip then you know it was the paint that failed. I seriously doubt the rain had anything to do with the paint bubbling and cracking.

Roch_Greg
09-14-2006, 06:42 PM
Thanks Phil for jumping in, I didn't want to over extend myself (given I've never used that type of paint) but I couldn't for the life of me think of how water (rain or no) could mess up paint that has been on the panel for a day or more.

slipchuck:

Don't go getting to jiggy with trying to dry the paint out. I have never heard of any chemical that could be used to dry paint. Only air drying or heat (curing).

I would do what Phil says an assess where the failure occured first (paint or primer). From the sound of it you have some type of adhesion issue.

When you prepped the truck for painting did you take everything down to metal and then primer --> paint or did you paint over the existing finish (where there wasn't any bodywork done?

Greg

slipchuck
09-14-2006, 09:51 PM
Thanks Phil for jumping in, I didn't want to over extend myself (given I've never used that type of paint) but I couldn't for the life of me think of how water (rain or no) could mess up paint that has been on the panel for a day or more.

slipchuck:

Don't go getting to jiggy with trying to dry the paint out. I have never heard of any chemical that could be used to dry paint. Only air drying or heat (curing).

I would do what Phil says an assess where the failure occured first (paint or primer). From the sound of it you have some type of adhesion issue.

When you prepped the truck for painting did you take everything down to metal and then primer --> paint or did you paint over the existing finish (where there wasn't any bodywork done?

Greg

thanks for the reply

when I peeled off some of the paint, on the primer there looked like tiny moisture drops on the primer itself.

here is the order I did things. filled, sanded, put tremclad rust resistant primer, then sanded, used sray cans of duplicolor primer/sealer. then painted. when I sanded the tremclad primer, some of the bondo and spot putty was showing, I thought this should be o.k because the CIL maine alkyd-enamel paint is also a rust resistant paint and will stick to any surface as long as it is painted, and doesn't really require primer.
I could be mistaken, but when you use duplicolor primer sealer, it doesn't need to be sanded before you paint, right?
the duplicolor stuck well to the tremclad (in the states it is called rustolum)

the strange thing is..... the paint failed in all places, except where the rain could not get at it.....
one other thing.....
I did not put the duplicolor primer sealer on the hood since I will be putting a different one one, and it stick as well as dried hard.
I only put one coat on the hood of paint (very thin)

so this is likely confusing but....
once I scrap the paint away....should I recoat the whole thing after sanding with the tremclad primer sand again then go right to the paint?
it seemed to work on the hood.

should I put on thin coats, let dry, sand and re-apply another coat of paint (marine enamel)

oopps I just re-read the article and I forgot to mix in the mineral spirits before rolling....

here is the article from the forum (very long running thread on it)

thread address: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Re: paint job on a budget
here's how i painted my car for about $50, it's actually very easy and the results are amazing. First off, get a can of tremclad real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. next prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow it to be painted over bare metal. next, after prepping the car get a small 4" professional FOAM rollers, it's tiny and has one end rounded off, and the other cut straight, and is a very high density foam. u also need a jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint. The thing i really like about this is that there's no mess, no tapeing the whole car, just key areas, and u can do it in your garage, since your not spraying there is virtually no dust in the air, just clean your garage first, also it does'nt really smell at all, dries overnight and it super tough paint. also it you decide to paint the car professionally later, just prep and paint, there's no need to strip the tremclad. i have done this to a few cars, and i can say it works amazing, u just have to be paitient. next u thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker. get out the roller and paint away, don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week!!! after u do 2 coats, wet sand the whole car, then repeat, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats wetsand. i painted the charger using a can since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start. once your done the final coat, wetsand with about 1000 grit to a totally smooth finish, and then using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. do the whole car with this, and i'm telling u, depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can. I used this technique on my 1974 beetle also
http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/th_DSC03045.jpg


if you look at others that did this, it does a great job....

let me know what you think...

randy

Roch_Greg
09-14-2006, 10:42 PM
First of all, without seeing it in person and just working off the pics you posted in your other thread I have to say I'm impressed.

After reading that piece you posted and if that's how you painted it (rolling) then that was one hellava paint job to be done using a roller. I've read here and a few other places about how it could be done, but man that came out pretty good.

Okay, I have zero experience with the products you used and the method but here's what I would do.

Here's Duplicolor's website (http://www.duplicolor.com/index.html) but it's not of much use. I'm thinking there was no adhesion between the primer sealer and the paint. Most Primer-Sealers will need to be sanded prior to topcoating.

If your going to scrape that paint off use a plastic one instead of something with metal. Once you've gotten the soft paint off, block sand eveything down smooth (try starting w/320). Make sure your cleaning the panels with a product made for autobody paint preperation and use plenty of clean non-linting towels. If you sand through or scrape down to metal anywhere your going to need to take care of that with the primer but make sure you clean and treat the metal.

From there you could thin your paint and have another go. Multiple thin layers of paint is always better than a few heavier coats. I'd work it like the guy did in that thread.

Thing is your going to need to provide a good foundation for the new paint job so you won't have to do this again. Pull the truck into the garage and get that non-sticking paint off, let the moisture that's laying on the primer dry out.

Read the cans of the products your using for primering/painting and make sure each is compatiable before starting again.

Len
09-14-2006, 11:49 PM
If you have bubbling and/or cracking you will need to remove everything down to the metal and start over. I've never had moisture effect my paint like this but I know that bubbling and cracking needs to be removed because it's not going to be a good foundation for anything you put on top.

slipchuck
09-19-2006, 11:19 AM
this is awefull......
once I am done straping the paint.....
I will have MORE sanding then before I painted it....
no matter how hard I try, you just can't advoid getting gouges....
I will NEVER use a spot putty that doesn't use a hardener again!!

randy :confused: :mad:

Len
09-19-2006, 12:17 PM
This is why you don't see lacquer based putty on this site. Do yourself a favor and toss that putty right now and when you need more putty get a good polyester putty like Evercoat's Euro-Soft Putty.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/e409.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E408a&Category_Code=FM)

slipchuck
09-19-2006, 01:05 PM
This is why you don't see lacquer based putty on this site. Do yourself a favor and toss that putty right now and when you need more putty get a good polyester putty like Evercoat's Euro-Soft Putty.



http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/e409.jpg
(http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E408a&Category_Code=FM)

thanks len
I dumped that stuff a while back.
near the end of my body work, some of the scratches etc was filled with ColorFlow lightweight polyester finishing putty sold by CarQuest.

ever hear of this product?
would it be the same as what you are describing?

thanks

randy

48chyrscoupe
02-20-2007, 03:38 PM
Randy, my question is did the duplicolor primer sealer bond to the Tremclad, or was there adhesion problems with it. Tremclad and Rustoleum are a very tough paint but are Synthetic Alkyd oil based enamel paints with rust corrosion resistant properties. When you coat over it, with other systems could there be potential problems.
As far as the roller method is concerned, I know it works, from my test pieces using Tremclad (Rustoleum) paint, thinned with mineral spirits, wetsanded evry 2nd coat, after 8 thin rolled coats I then compund polished and buffed the final product. It came out well, had some swirl in it but was shiny, orange peel free and hard as a rock, after one year on my test pieces the surfaces are still hard as a rock, and could only be scratched by a sharp metal object. Wood and plastic only marred the surfaces somewhat.
This method, and use of very basic oil based enamel paint is not for everyone, but if you don't have equipment, money or skill, it may be an alternative for some, and at the very least temporary, until you can afford a more traditional paint job, the prepping remains the same and the better the prep, the better the paint job can and should turn out.
I know the individual (69chargeryeeha), have spoken with him may times, the quality of his work is quite good, he has also done many single stage sprayed home paint jobs, that have turned out very well, he has just taken the time to perfect this particular method. His 73 VW bug was painted with a roller in 1999, it still looks great, but it is not driven in winter weather, but is driven all summer long, he waxs and buffs the car annually.
I am not trying to start a roller thread here, but when I mention this to bodyman, friends with paint experience, they all raise there noses, and say this is an inferior method using cheap house panit, that it will not stand up and looks like garbage, nothing could be farther from the truth.
In the USA True Value hardware, has a paint line called XO Rust paint, I have seen a classic car," a 40 Studebaker" painted with a red color, it was reduced with mineral sprirts by 10 % and 10 % Hardner was included in the mix. This was sprayed , and wet sanded and buff and compound, it looked great, and for the occasional use might hold up well.
Sorry about the long reply, I am a green newcomer to body and paint and just want to learn.:D