Brian,about candy painting

[Chris L]

I had the "pleasure" of painting 2 34ford coupes this year using candy PPGvibrance series.Not having any instructions other than "this guy said" "that guy said" the owner wanted me to try it anyway.You HAVE to walk the car.I actually misted the mid coats on from about 16 inches away just to not streak the car,it is that touchy.There is also no possible way to blend a candy,at least the ones that i used.One i used was fine gold with wineberry on top? I forget...anyway,i wouldn't recomend anyone to use this unless they have a nice booth set up,because one speck of dust in the mid coats,and you either leave it,or start over from the base coat because the mid coats just darken up around the dust particles.I hated it,plain and simple.

[Pot]

Yes, but that's why you can charge an arm and a leg for candies, fades and most other custom paint jobs. Each one is unique and a work of art, but it's one of those deals where you do it right the first time or you're screwed.

I wouldn't even attempt a repair blend to a candy or fade job done by someone else. I can't do a decent repair on my own work. I'd really mess up on someone else's job.

[Phil V]

I agree with Pot. Its almost impossible for anyone to match existing custom paints. The rule of thumb is if any repairs need to be done on a custom paintjob you bring it back to the original person who painted that custom paint. Just out of curiosity - was that candy done in lacquer or AU ? I've had a quite bit of experience with lacquer candies but bery little experience with AU candies.

Why it is necessary to bring that custom paint job that needs repair back to the original painter is that only HE knows how that paint was mixed (how much candy tint was mixed into the clear for the mid coat. ONLY the original painter knows what gun he used and ONLY that painter can duplicate his own painting technique. And even the original painter has no way of blending a true candy apply paint job, strictly whole panel. Custom paint jobs sure look great when there are no problems but they turn into a real bag of worms when repair work is needed.

[Jon E]

Whenever I spray a candy, I always reduce it about 25% or more with the SG100 clear. It makes it a lot more forgiving and easier to spray. You also may want to try using a little faster reducer and activator to help cut down on the dust nibs.

[TNshadetree]

I had a painter tell me that since I was using a metallic paint, that dropping a few squirts of the base into the first layer of clear would give a deep candy like look.

I don't know this guy from Adam, but it idea sounded like it might work. Has anyone done this before and does it add anything to the look? Or is it just asking for tiger stripes?

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

I know absolutely nothing about painting candies as I've never done it but I know a whole lot about spraying woodworking dyes which are transparent and very much the woodworking equivelent to automotive candies and maybe I can add some insight to this discussion.

The key to spraying woodworking dyes is multiple passes using a highly dilute mixture. This is what we woodworkers call "sneaking up on the color." We might use as many as 5 or six passes to uniform out the dye color on the wood and I think this might be a good idea for using candies in the automotive field. If you try to go too strong too fast streaking is enevitable with NGR dyes and I would think be the same case with candies.

[Len]

I found that using very little base in the clear is ok but it can present three problems....

1. In most cases the base is a different chemical than the clear. Different hardener (if any) and different type of paint. Some types of clear may not be able to tolerate the addition of base so be sure to experiment a little before you commit to doing a car with the mix.

2. Unless you measure the exact amount of base you mix with the clear you could have trouble matching the paint later. When the metallic or pearl floats in the clear it can have a slightly different look (that's why we do it) but it can come back to haunt you unless you measure the exact amount used.

3. It's easy to generate inconsistencies in the look of the metallic colors depending on the amount of color added to the clear. The metallic can gather unevenly at times causing bright spots in the paint. Don't mix in too much color, just a little and you should be safe in this regard.

[Chris L]

Phil,i even told the man that owned the cars(company) that i couldnt repair and blend in my own paint job if he brought it back.The reason being.this particular car i was using Global base coat,gold..3-4 coats..then anywhere from 8-12 coats of mid coat on top.Say you have rock chips on the front..by the time you repair,prime...and start with the base coat again,you have some of the base on those 8-12 coats of mid..then to get the 8-12 coats on the repair,you now have 16-24 on the non damaged paint.I see no way of repainting one unless you did a whole side to a break line.

[MARTINSR]

I have to tell you, people blend candies and pearls everyday in collision repair. I have done a pearl a few times with good results and only did a candy once, it turned out perfect.

I have shot a number of candy graffics, motorcycle parts and helmets and stuff like that so I have some limited experiance with it.

I had a Dodge Intrepid company car that got hit on the bumper. It was a true candy with a tinted clear mid coat. I repaired the damage, primed it, and then mixed the base color. The color was a thousand miles from the color on the car. I was expecting something a little closer being it was a factory paint. The base was a very blueish red color. I went ahead and sprayed it out, blending it out just as if it was a regular base color.

I sprayed a sprayout card the base and then a let down panel of the candy. Finding that three coats candy would produce the original color of the car.

I then just using common sense blended the candy mid coat over JUST the base I blended out. I applied the three coats of candy and then cleared the whole thing.

It was perfect, I mean looking from any angle, even knowing where the blend was I could see NOTHING. So it can be done.

But that is it, that is all I know, personally about blending a candy.

Brian

[Phil V]

Brian, with all due respect I dont' see how it is possible to blend ANY candy apple panel. The whole idea of candy colors is that they are transparent color where the basecoat is visible throught the mid coat and the clear. We can all agree that the more candy you apply the darker the color gets. So there is no possible way to "blend into" any existing candy without making that area darker. I've sprayed a lot of different candies and true metal flakes and my experience is that there is no possible way to blend any candy paints.

[MARTINSR]

Phil, how does a three stage paint get repaired? Our painters blend them all the time at work. Though, I admit they don't usually get as good a result as I would accept. But some look pretty good. If you go to the PPG, S-W, DuPont training sites they all have courses on blending three stages.

I am telling you, this repair I did on the bumper was FLAWLESS. Now, it may be some supernatural, Native American hoodoo voodoo magic was laid down on me to give me the powers, but it was perfect. I know perfect, I can show the painters exactly where they blended on a pretty decent job, normal old two stage. I have a pretty good eye to pick apart a $300,000 show car. This bumper repair was FLAWLESS at every angle I could see NOTHING.

Now, I admit it wasn't a silver base with red candy, that would be harder. This base was a bluish red kinda heading toward the final color. The candy was a factorypack "Lazer red" tinted urethane clear. Looked like any other candy I have shot.

I was using my 1.3 Sharpe Platinum, a super atomizing gun. If you havn't tried one, they are the blenders dream gun.

If you think about it, the candy gets darker when the more you put on, well, if you spray it over the blended out base, it isn't any darker. Now, I know, I know, on the edges of the blend you have droplets of base out there, it isn't like the candy is going to fall in droplets only on those droplets. It all makes sense to me as well, how could this work. I just did what the tell you in the tech class at S-W. That is all I did, well, that and the Hoodoo Voodoo that is. :)

Brian

[MARTINSR]

LOL, I guess I didn't do what they tell you in S-W class. I just broke out my binder I got in the class and read the blending 3-stage section. Now, they didn't mention candies at all, only pearl. But I didn't do it at all like they said. Remember I said I used my "common sense". :) Well, they did say to blend out the base color and then blend out the pearl with a total of coats found on the let down panel to match. But they tell you to blend these coats out MORE than you would with a usually blend.

I don't know, maybe I fell into something they hadn't thought of? It just made sense to blend the base out, then blend only the same area with the mid coat. I did that years ago on some stripes with pearl, seemed to work then as well.

Brian

[Pot]

Brian, I gotta agree with Phil. It's true that pearls are blended everyday in the collision repair industry. However, those are factory formulas involved. They are still difficult to match. I've been there.

Matching a custom mix pearl or especially a candy is nearly impossible. To match one of those on the first try would be approaching a miracle and be pure luck...and that's only if you did the original job.

[MARTINSR]

Well, I guess it is up to you to decide if I was lucky, I'm lieing, or I am too stupid to know better. :)

If you read my post, this WAS a factory finish, NOT a "custom mix". In fact the color is called "Candy apple red" in the 2000 Dodge directry. It used a factory pack mid coat candy and I mixed the base off the mixing bank.
Now, if you didn't read what I said well enough to catch that it WAS a factory color and that the base was a "similar" color and not a silver or something, maybe you missed a lot. Before you say you don't believe me, maybe you should read it again, real slow.

It is up to you what you want to believe.

Brian

[Yelog60]

We specialize in custom paint, and I will agree w/ Brian that you can blend a candy, you just have to know the proper technique and application.. Anyone should know that all things are possible, it just may not seem obvious at first..

[Pot]

Well, I guess it is up to you to decide if I was lucky, I'm lieing, or I am too stupid to know better. :)

If you read my post, this WAS a factory finish, NOT a "custom mix". In fact the color is called "Candy apple red" in the 2000 Dodge directry. It used a factory pack mid coat candy and I mixed the base off the mixing bank.
Now, if you didn't read what I said well enough to catch that it WAS a factory color and that the base was a "similar" color and not a silver or something, maybe you missed a lot. Before you say you don't believe me, maybe you should read it again, real slow.

It is up to you what you want to believe.

Brian


Wow, Brian! Did you have a bad day?? I agreed that blending three stage paints is done everyday in the collision repair industry. I simply pointed out that those are factory formulas and therefore cuts out some of the guesswork that is present in custom mix situations.

When I say it is nearly impossible to blend a candy, I'm thinking "custom mix". Maybe that wasn't plain.

BTW, as you know, paint manufacturers and auto manufacturers love to put trick names on some colors.
Ford had a Candy Apple Red back in the 70s but it was nothing more than a normal single stage. It was candy apple in name only.

I, nor anyone else, has suggested you were lying or too stupid to know better. Cool your jets, Dude!

[MARTINSR]

:), ok guy, I'm with ya. No big deal. This WAS a "candy apple" paint. It's name was "Candy Apple Red" and it was a Candy apple application using a S-W system. It had a base color, a factory pack S-W tinted mid coat clear that WAS a true candy just like from HOK.

I have also blended custom pearls that were done by others. I sanded the pearl off exposing the base. Matched the base color. Made a let down panel using the same color pearl and was able to do a pretty decent blend. As well as a panel paint a hood once. Now, it didn't match perfect on the panel painted hood, but as nice as your average body shop would do on a solid color. :)

Brian

[Phil V]

Quote " We specialize in custom paint, and I will agree w/ Brian that you can blend a candy, you just have to know the proper technique and application.. Anyone should know that all things are possible, it just may not seem obvious at first.." (end quote).

I've been a professional painter full time for just short of 35 years. Please share your application technique of blending a red candy over a silver base.
I'm all ears ------------.

[paintnbcool]

It can be done. John Kosmoski of HOK has two great tapes on blending his apple red over a silver base. He goes thur the whole job from repairing the panel to the clearing. HOK is a lot harder to do then the factory three stage candy. The factory is less translucant then HOK, giving HOK more of a kick a$$ custom look when done.

Dale

[louis]

hi everyone! I'm a beginner and hope someone can help me to overcome my fear of painting kandy. I try once to used the SEM line of kandy to pratice on my sister's car and it try out a nightmare I still see everyday! Sister still driving that thing as we speak.... The problem I have is one side of the hood is darker than the other, the rest of the car is fine, It might be ok with a carbon fiber hood, but the real problem is after a week in the sun, the car started to fade very badly! the top half is totally lighter than the bottom half. Is it something I did wrong or just the product is cheap? I have spray tri stage before and it's nothing like kandy... after 13 hours in a homemade paint booth carring that hundred pounds spray gun, I have since stay away from any kandy job....... any advice would be great, thanks


louis

[Chris L]

My advice is to stay away from it unless you want to master candy as a skill just to do all the time for a living.

[Ultra Al]

Interesting thread guys. On top of everything mentioned, you also have the posibility of the stuff bleeding. (Dont ask how I know!). As we speak Im doing some test panels for a Candy Rootbeer to be used in a two tone on a '68 Shovel. I just remembered from a couple of posts back, Ive got the Kosmosky tape, think Ill dig it out and give it a rerun. AL