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welddoc
10-13-2016, 03:34 PM
Hello,
I have searched the Forum to avoid asking for this advice. I can't seem to find a clear answer...Now that I have painted (bc/cc) I need to sand down orange peel then buff and polish. I am confused about what to use to buff and polish. I am confused about orbital, random orbital/da polishers and which to use. I can't afford multiple machines so what is best? I read that da offers more protection but is very slow. I read that orbital machines are faster but may cut through the clear. Then I read about "forced rotation" mode but don't know what application this is for. Is there one type of machine that is best to use for initial rubbing compound and polishing knowing some swirls may be left behind? I plan on hand sanding my clear with 1000, 1500 and +/- 2000. Hoping there is one machine I can use to buff and polish with.

Advice from the Forum is always most appreciated.

Bruce

Len
10-13-2016, 06:05 PM
Bruce, you want a variable speed rotary polisher. There are a lot of them that will do the job and the prices vary greatly. We like the Makita because it has a lot of torque which means that you can set the rotation to a SLOW speed and use it and it doesn't stop like the low cost buffers. Forget the DA and a the forced rotation is a good tool when it's used after buffing with a rotary. The buffers below perform in relation to their price.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tnmkt9237cx3.png (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tnmkt9237cx3.png)

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/atd10511b.jpg
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=atd10511&Category_Code=T2)

Henry
10-13-2016, 06:46 PM
You should always think of a couple things in this art/trade.

First off, you really do get what you pay for especially on certain one time purchase items. This is true for the polisher you choose.

The Makita Len showed you is a few dollars more but what it gives you for lots of cars and years to come is a drop in the bucket, seriously.

Look at it this way as well. You put all this labor into Autobody of your project. You have a lot of money invested into the tools to accomplish a good result. Lots of money for primer and paint. Once done, if you need to sand and buff, you really don't want to destroy all your effort and money into the process thus far.

This is why you really want the Makita type machine because of its torque on LOW speed and ease of use. The other thing you need to understand is this Makita 9227c is not only a buffer but doubles as a powerful sander making it a winner for the day you need to strip the finish off a car or your next project utilizing the torque of the machine at a low RPM and NOT overheat the metal.

Hopefully, if you have a good compressor, you only buy the one. Well, same thing with the polisher. To help you, I am attaching a couple buffing links below that you need to review, understand and come back with questions should you have any about what you've seen.

This first one is how to get swirls out after buffing and show you how to SEASON THE PAD:

http://www.autobodystore.com/swirl_removal.shtml

This one takes you through sanding/buffing of 'original factory paint':

http://www.autobodystore.com/rsw.shtml

The above two links were from our Resident Detail Professional Expert, "Robert". In addition, below are some videos he has done for us as well:

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showthread.php?23828-Robert-s-Detailing-Videos

Finally, here is a link to a detailing DVD that Robert made and is available for order from Len here:

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RSW01&Category_Code=4VDO

Also, never fear asking anything on this site. Someone will always help you and the only DUMB question is the one someone was afraid to ask.

Henry

welddoc
10-13-2016, 07:02 PM
Thanks so much Len and Henry. Very helpful. Much to learn and difficult to get objective info

Bruce

Henry
10-14-2016, 07:46 AM
Thanks so much Len and Henry. Very helpful. Much to learn and difficult to get objective info

Bruce

I just read all of your posts. You say you have a 35 gallon compressor but could you give more information on that machine? What are the other specifics of it; 220V, CFM ratings, Oil or oiless?

Although it's not recommended, depending on the other numbers of your compressor, you could paint a couple panels at a time, better done if painting a solid color. If panel painting with a metallic paint, you could result in uneven spray out of the color and metallic. The gun and its air requirements dictate a lot of what you can do as well.

Also, what type and brand of gun are you using?

You should frequent the CLASSROOM section of this site for a wealth of information. You can get there from ANY page by going to the top left and clicking on HOME tab then look for the CLASSROOM tab. Move your mouse SLOWLY in that tab as it has a hair trigger.

And remember, your comment, "I have searched the Forum to avoid asking for this advice." should never be stated on this site. Ask anything you need to and one or more of the members here will help you.

Henry

welddoc
10-14-2016, 12:30 PM
Thanks Henry,
I have a 35 gal 120 volt oil less Husky compressor bought at Lowes. I can't recall the cfm at 90 and 40 psi which are posted on the tank but it aint much! I ran my gun at about 90 psi at the gun which when the gun is depressed fully looked to be around 15-20 psi max. I used a Concourse gun (Eastwood) and it worked well other than orange peel in the clear coat which I am told is not rare.

I won't be able to get a larger compressor for a year or so to get more cfm.

I find you and Len to be very generous with your time and expertise with everyone who posts and it is very much appreciated. Researching previous posts on the Forum allows us to avoid asking the same questions over and over.

Again, thanks for your help!
Bruce

studebaker
11-14-2016, 06:47 AM
Ive used a rotary air and an electric rotary Makita polisher for years. This year I purchased a new Flex 3401 electric forced rotation buffer and have hung up the rotory polishers I've always used.
You should take a look at the Flex and Rupes line of electric buffers/polishers. Rupes just opened up a factory in Colorado. Soon I will purchase a Rupes mini for those tight areas.

Len
11-14-2016, 06:57 AM
Ive used a rotary air and an electric rotary Makita polisher for years. This year I purchased a new Flex 3401 electric forced rotation buffer and have hung up the rotory polishers I've always used.
You should take a look at the Flex and Rupes line of electric buffers/polishers. Rupes just opened up a factory in Colorado. Soon I will purchase a Rupes mini for those tight areas.

We use a forced rotation polisher on dark colors after we do our buffing with a rotary buffer to remove swirls. It takes too long to remove sanding scratches with the forced rotation so we use the rotary for 90% of our buffing.

We normally recommend the Makita 9227C because it can be run at slow speeds without slowing when pressure is applied. If a buffer slows the user will usually increase the speed to get the power they need and it can cause damage to the paint.

However, if you do a lot of buffing, adding a forced rotation buffer to your shop is worth the investment.

studebaker
11-14-2016, 10:31 AM
We use a forced rotation polisher on dark colors after we do our buffing with a rotary buffer to remove swirls. It takes too long to remove sanding scratches with the forced rotation so we use the rotary for 90% of our buffing.

We normally recommend the Makita 9227C because it can be run at slow speeds without slowing when pressure is applied. If a buffer slows the user will usually increase the speed to get the power they need and it can cause damage to the paint.

However, if you do a lot of buffing, adding a forced rotation buffer to your shop is worth the investment.

Len, don't know what pads/ compounds you use but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I won't ever go back to a rotary unless my flex is not of commission. Just no comparison in my mind. I recently buffed out some super hard clear on a two tone job, top of car. I tried every combination I had with the rotary to start with. Wool pads, different wool pads, different foam pads and buffing compounds. That is the reason I started looking and reading about different buffers and methods. Bought the Flex 3401. Used Menzerna 400 then 3500. Slowed the buffer down and the best first buff I've ever done. Did rest of the car. Beautiful.

Len
11-14-2016, 11:15 AM
Len, don't know what pads/ compounds you use but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I won't ever go back to a rotary unless my flex is not of commission. Just no comparison in my mind. I recently buffed out some super hard clear on a two tone job, top of car. I tried every combination I had with the rotary to start with. Wool pads, different wool pads, different foam pads and buffing compounds. That is the reason I started looking and reading about different buffers and methods. Bought the Flex 3401. Used Menzerna 400 then 3500. Slowed the buffer down and the best first buff I've ever done. Did rest of the car. Beautiful.

I haven't used the Flex, we use the Makita BO6040 forced rotation so I don't know how the action compares but it takes too long to remove 2500 scratches. We actually don't use the 6040 on most jobs, we don't need to remove swirls so we stick with the rotary. But if it's working for you, and I have a source for a trial, I'll give the Flex a try.

studebaker
06-12-2017, 07:26 AM
I haven't used the Flex, we use the Makita BO6040 forced rotation so I don't know how the action compares but it takes too long to remove 2500 scratches. We actually don't use the 6040 on most jobs, we don't need to remove swirls so we stick with the rotary. But if it's working for you, and I have a source for a trial, I'll give the Flex a try.

Here is a picture of the 1953 Hudson Hornet roof sprayed with Tamco 2021 clear. For some reason this particular spray was rock hard and the rotary buffer would not buff to shine, no matter what I tried. Then I bought the Flex forced action buffer based on info and reviews on Autogeek. This was my first time/ panel using it. 20377
20376
Top picture is after rotary buffing. See the haze left. Bottom picture is after buffing with the Flex.

flamin45
08-01-2017, 01:03 AM
Here is a picture of the 1953 Hudson Hornet roof sprayed with Tamco 2021 clear. For some reason this particular spray was rock hard and the rotary buffer would not buff to shine, no matter what I tried. Then I bought the Flex forced action buffer based on info and reviews on Autogeek. This was my first time/ panel using it. 20377
20376
Top picture is after rotary buffing. See the haze left. Bottom picture is after buffing with the Flex.

That is a good result using the Flex.