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Jim2
08-19-2016, 07:42 PM
... and water in the transmission. I have a lot to do this weekend..

My transmission began to slip a couple weeks ago, but it just needed fluid. A few days later, I was glad to find that the leak is at the radiator and not the trans. Sounds easy enough to fix, but I procrastinated because I've been busy lately. Over the last couple weeks, I had to add about 4-5 quarts of atf.

Yesterday, the motor started to run a little hot (just a little) and when I opened the coolant reservoir, it was like a strawberry milkshake. Thick milkshake... I opened it while hot, and it spewed all over the place. It made a mess, but I felt good about letting it out and replacing it with some fresh water.

[on a side note] I've been running straight water recently because I was concerned about the head gasket. I heard that anti-freeze is very bad for the main bearing if it gets into the oil... but I digress...

So anyways, I don't think there's any anti-freeze inside the transmission, but the atf did look like a little water got in there.

I know some of you guys will say to just get rid of the truck already, but that's not an option. I gotta keep this baby running for a while. I looked up the KBB value, and it's worth putting a few hundred dollars worth of parts in it. ... now, if I had to pay someone else to do it, it might not be worth it.

My main concern is running the residual atf thru the new radiator. I guess I'll have to swap the atf one or two more times after this..

What do you guys think about putting seafoam in the trans with the first fluid change? ...Or are there any other additives that you guys have had good luck with?

When I do the final atf change, I'm thinking about using one or two bottles of Lucas. It's supposed to help the old bands and such.

Jim2
08-19-2016, 07:51 PM
ps, While I'm at it, I'm gonna do the water pump and thermostat too.

There's been a "whirring" sound for a while now. It sounded like it was coming from the idler pulley, but the water pump is right there too. At $60 for the water pump, it seems silly not to replace it while I have everything opened up.

fwiw, it's a '98 F-150, 191,000 miles. The transmission is a "4R70W".

Jim2
08-20-2016, 08:28 PM
... putting seafoam in the trans with the first fluid change? ...Or are there any other additives that you guys have had good luck with?


Scratch that comment about seafoam in the transmission. I was going by memory.. I thought I heard of people doing that, but, after reading the can, I see that it doesn't say anything about using it in the trans..

easymoney
08-21-2016, 12:15 AM
put an aftermarket transmission cooler on it and hope that you have not waited too late and ruined the transmission.

Henry
08-21-2016, 04:09 AM
... and water in the transmission. I have a lot to do this weekend..

My transmission began to slip a couple weeks ago, but it just needed fluid. A few days later, I was glad to find that the leak is at the radiator and not the trans. Sounds easy enough to fix, but I procrastinated because I've been busy lately. Over the last couple weeks, I had to add about 4-5 quarts of atf.

Yesterday, the motor started to run a little hot (just a little) and when I opened the coolant reservoir, it was like a strawberry milkshake. Thick milkshake... I opened it while hot, and it spewed all over the place. It made a mess, but I felt good about letting it out and replacing it with some fresh water.

[on a side note] I've been running straight water recently because I was concerned about the head gasket. I heard that anti-freeze is very bad for the main bearing if it gets into the oil... but I digress...

So anyways, I don't think there's any anti-freeze inside the transmission, but the atf did look like a little water got in there.

I know some of you guys will say to just get rid of the truck already, but that's not an option. I gotta keep this baby running for a while. I looked up the KBB value, and it's worth putting a few hundred dollars worth of parts in it. ... now, if I had to pay someone else to do it, it might not be worth it.

My main concern is running the residual atf thru the new radiator. I guess I'll have to swap the atf one or two more times after this..

What do you guys think about putting seafoam in the trans with the first fluid change? ...Or are there any other additives that you guys have had good luck with?

When I do the final atf change, I'm thinking about using one or two bottles of Lucas. It's supposed to help the old bands and such.

If there's ATF in the radiator then it's in the engine. Not mention water/ATF back to the trans.

The detergency of ATF is very strong and I'm sure not at all good for the gaskets it's coming in contact with.

Also, sounds like you already changed the radiator, YES?

If this rat is still running and mine, I would drop the fluids from everything and install new CORRECT FLUIDS.

You DO need to find the time or have some comfortable walking shoes and better take a shopping cart from the store where you buy your overpriced bacon to push your tools around.

Good luck on this one.

Henry

Jim2
08-21-2016, 05:16 AM
If there's ATF in the radiator then it's in the engine. Not mention water/ATF back to the trans.

The detergency of ATF is very strong and I'm sure not at all good for the gaskets it's coming in contact with.

Also, sounds like you already changed the radiator, YES?

If this rat is still running and mine, I would drop the fluids from everything and install new CORRECT FLUIDS.

You DO need to find the time or have some comfortable walking shoes and better take a shopping cart from the store where you buy your overpriced bacon to push your tools around.

Good luck on this one.

Henry

Lol Henry, I took my good flip flops off today so I don't get the strawberry milkshake all over them!

It's ugly.. I can't tell the difference between what came out of the radiator and what came out of the trans.

"Ford Tough" buddy! I've abused some Fords mercilessly in the past, but I'm trying to be nice with this one.. it's a long story...

But I did drive to the auto parts store today for the parts, then to the supermarket for supplies, and I tried to park in far away spots because she was leaving a big mess everywhere..

I drained everything when I got home (trans and rad), and here's what it looked like.... try to guess which is which... there's a clue in the pics if you look really close.. one is from the rad, one is from the trans... it's like a riddle, the answer is in there..

http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18893&stc=1


http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18894&stc=1

Jim2
08-21-2016, 05:26 AM
put an aftermarket transmission cooler on it and hope that you have not waited too late and ruined the transmission.

yeah man, I hope I didn't... I've been troubled about this for a few days because I had to drive up a hill to finish this job... I'm sure that the bands have been abused, even though I tried my best to drive gently. It was uphill, and I could feel em slippin sometimes...

But she ran fine when I went to pick up supplies today. New blood in the trans will only make it better.

I just hope the bands are ok... but it's a Ford... Oven the years, I've been amazed at the abuse that fords can take! I just hope I didn't push it too far.

Jim2
08-21-2016, 05:57 AM
I found some good tricks online for this task..

To drain the transmission pan, I got 5' of clear hose with a 5/16" i.d. ... That size fits perfectly over the flare on the "hard lines" that bring the atf to and from the radiator.... run that hose to a bucket, and start the engine.. then shut it off as soon as you see bubbles...... the transmission will pump as much fluid as it can out of the pan, and it makes dropping the pan a breeze! When I removed the pan, literally, I didn't spill a single drop. It was almost empty. It was beautiful!

Draining the torque converter was easy too. I bought the cheapest atf they had, because I intend to this again in the near future.

Henry
08-21-2016, 11:37 AM
I found some good tricks online for this task..

To drain the transmission pan, I got 5' of clear hose with a 5/16" i.d. ... That size fits perfectly over the flare on the "hard lines" that bring the atf to and from the radiator.... run that hose to a bucket, and start the engine.. then shut it off as soon as you see bubbles...... the transmission will pump as much fluid as it can out of the pan, and it makes dropping the pan a breeze! When I removed the pan, literally, I didn't spill a single drop. It was almost empty. It was beautiful!

Draining the torque converter was easy too. I bought the cheapest atf they had, because I intend to this again in the near future.

This truck owes you NOTHING.

Dropping the pan on the trans was your best move, although, I would not have moved the vehicle under its own power. Make sure you change the filter up in there as well; maybe several times depending what comes out.

Years ago we used to drain coolant from vehicles from the radiator AND remove the plug(s) from the block. Really like for you to drain the block alone and see what comes out. If discolored, then remove the thermostat and insert a garden hose while leaving the block plugs out. You may need a cleaner.

What you're doing should NOT be taken lightly because you can blow that trans in a heartbeat along with damage to the engine.

Vehicles of today (past 10 years) use near a dozen different trans fluids. Used to be there was one fluid for FORDS and one for everyone else. Today, only a few ounces of the wrong fluid in a Chevy truck will blow the trans (for example).

Henry

Jim2
08-21-2016, 11:16 PM
This truck owes you NOTHING. ...
Henry

That's the truth Henry! I got my monies worth out of this baby years ago, that's for sure..

I can't even remember how long ago I got it, but it must be close to ten years now.. I had to change out the alternator right away, and after a while I had to replace the coil pack, but aside from that, everything else was minor. Basically just old rubber wearing out... a couple vacuum lines, the top radiator hose, and tires. Brake pads and fuel filter is just regular maintenance...

I don't even change the oil as often as I "should".. but it's a Ford, it can take it ;)

If anything, I owe this truck something.. And now it's time to pay the piper.

The guy at Napa gave me the wrong transmission filter(s). I picked up two different filters because he wasn't sure which one, and it turns out that neither one is correct. Not even close.. friggin knucklehead.. He asked if it was the "deep pan" or not, and I didn't know, so I took one of each... But one of these filters says 4WD right on the damn box. And it looks like they're both "deep pan", when compared to my original filter. Also, the gasket that comes with the kit looks nothing like the shape of my pan. And on top of that, the original gasket is re-usable..

Thanks for the comments about the correct fluid too, but I have that squared away already. I know it's very important... I have 15 quarts of Mercon V ready to go over here... But it's interesting how the Lucas additive can be used in any transmission. It doesn't specify Chevy or Ford. I wonder how that works?

Henry
08-22-2016, 01:49 AM
That's the truth Henry! I got my monies worth out of this baby years ago, that's for sure..

I can't even remember how long ago I got it, but it must be close to ten years now.. I had to change out the alternator right away, and after a while I had to replace the coil pack, but aside from that, everything else was minor. Basically just old rubber wearing out... a couple vacuum lines, the top radiator hose, and tires. Brake pads and fuel filter is just regular maintenance...

I don't even change the oil as often as I "should".. but it's a Ford, it can take it ;)

If anything, I owe this truck something.. And now it's time to pay the piper.

The guy at Napa gave me the wrong transmission filter(s). I picked up two different filters because he wasn't sure which one, and it turns out that neither one is correct. Not even close.. friggin knucklehead.. He asked if it was the "deep pan" or not, and I didn't know, so I took one of each... But one of these filters says 4WD right on the damn box. And it looks like they're both "deep pan", when compared to my original filter. Also, the gasket that comes with the kit looks nothing like the shape of my pan. And on top of that, the original gasket is re-usable..

Thanks for the comments about the correct fluid too, but I have that squared away already. I know it's very important... I have 15 quarts of Mercon V ready to go over here... But it's interesting how the Lucas additive can be used in any transmission. It doesn't specify Chevy or Ford. I wonder how that works?

Look for a plate or other markings on your trans so you can get the correct filter.

I want to know what's in the engine block. Find those drain plug(s) and DON'T drive that thing before you refresh all the fluids and the trans may take several times before it clears.

The bold part of your quote is that way because we know about all that. You spent months on here asking everyone about what was wrong..........remember?

Henry

Lucas: Why should they care what you put in as long as they make a sale? Advise is not to fuk with transmissions and your owners manual will state, "oil additives are NOT recommended for your vehicle".

Dealers, through the years made a practice of putting Marvel Mystery oil or Rislone in with oil changes. Wanna know why? Because the parts / service managers were given nice gifts from the makers of that stuff to do it.

Gasket: you should always change the gasket, regardless; especially if it's included. Tighten that pan down in sequence also.

Jim2
08-22-2016, 03:15 AM
Look for a plate or other markings on your trans so you can get the correct filter.

I want to know what's in the engine block. Find those drain plug(s) and DON'T drive that thing before you refresh all the fluids and the trans may take several times before it clears.

The bold part of your quote is that way because we know about all that. You spent months on here asking everyone about what was wrong..........remember?

Henry

Lucas: Why should they care what you put in as long as they make a sale? Advise is not to fuk with transmissions and your owners manual will state, "oil additives are NOT recommended for your vehicle".

Dealers, through the years made a practice of putting Marvel Mystery oil or Rislone in with oil changes. Wanna know why? Because the parts / service managers were given nice gifts from the makers of that stuff to do it.

Gasket: you should always change the gasket, regardless; especially if it's included. Tighten that pan down in sequence also.

Thanks Henry,

I looked up the trans via the code on the door sticker. It's a 4R70W. They gave me filters for E40D transmissions. The gasket that came with the kit was my first clue, it came out of the box first, and it's a completely different shape. And the filters are not even close to the same size/shape as mine.

I guess it was just a miscommunication. I'll let it slide as long as they deliver the right filter to me tomorrow. It's only a mile away, so I think they'll do it. If they won't, then I'll be pissed.


You spent months on here asking everyone about what was wrong..........remember? Yeah, I remember that. It took a long time to find that one little vacuum line that was causing the problem. In the end, it only cost $3 for a piece of rubber hose... but that thing was well hidden! It was impossible to see it without a mirror, and, in the end, it was just a matter of reaching in there and going by feel. As soon as my finger touched that elbow, I knew I found the problem.

As for the additives, Lucas, Marvel, and all the others, are you saying you never use any of them Henry? I've heard a lot of good things about Lucas and Marvel's and Seafoam etc... sometimes those additives can help with an old machine.. but maybe it's all bs. I don't know.. I don't doubt that a lot of it has to do with distributors "greasing palms", but that doesn't necessarily mean they're all bad. It's kinda like prescription drugs and doctors imo..:privateeye:

The new radiator went in smooth today. The only thing left to do is that trans filter. I decided not to mess with the water pump until I see how she runs after this. I intend to flush the cooling system real good, and I'll flush the trans one more time before running it too... It turns out that it's really easy to draw fluid out of the trans via the top line that goes into the radiator. I have some 5/16" id tubing that fits right over that line... run it to a bucket and start er up, and it pumps right out. I'll probably run a gallon thru it before hooking it up to the new radiator.

I'm still a little unsure about the torque sequence for the tranny pan. I guess I'll just start at the center and zig-zag out to the ends. "Lightly snug" at first, and then a little tighter on the second pass..? If you have any advice, I'm all ears. I know that it's important not to overtighten them, but my torque wrench doesn't go down to inch-pounds, so I'll have to go by feel. The worst that can happen is it will drip... But it never leaked before, and I was surprised at how tight some of those bolts were (but they still came out easily). The factory gasket is metal with a rubber coating. The gaskets that came with the filter kit were just floppy rubber.

Jim2
08-22-2016, 03:30 AM
...

I want to know what's in the engine block. Find those drain plug(s) ...


PS Henry, I'm not sure what you mean by "drain plugs".. I'm picturing the "freeze-out plugs", but I can't go after those without pulling the whole engine. I never heard of drain plugs on a block...?

Jim2
08-22-2016, 03:46 AM
Maybe when this is all done I'll do a smoky brakestand...

...just to make sure everything is still working correctly :evil:

Henry
08-22-2016, 09:36 AM
I'm still a little unsure about the torque sequence for the tranny pan. I guess I'll just start at the center and zig-zag out to the ends. "Lightly snug" at first, and then a little tighter on the second pass..? If you have any advice, I'm all ears. I know that it's important not to overtighten them, but my torque wrench doesn't go down to inch-pounds, so I'll have to go by feel. The worst that can happen is it will drip... But it never leaked before, and I was surprised at how tight some of those bolts were (but they still came out easily). The factory gasket is metal with a rubber coating. The gaskets that came with the filter kit were just floppy rubber.

Here's one page:

https://www.google.com/search?q=4r70w+transmission+pan+torque+specs&rlz=1T4PLXB_enUS665US665&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMlsG7jtXOAhUI5GMKHTzfC3YQ7AkISA&biw=1280&bih=650

Here, read a few:

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=4R70W+trans+tor&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PLXB_enUS665US665&q=4r70w+transmission+pan+torque+specs+&gs_l=hp..2.0i22i30l3.0.0.0.25179...........0.MfXQ4 dc4ksE

I copied the following from one FORD forum: (Forgot what engine you have.)

"I just changed the coolant today in my 1999. The drain plug is right where p-ferlow says it is. Right under the freeze plug and it's 17mm easiest to get with a socket.

Here: https://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9161

Best places: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=97+ford+f150+engine+drain+plugs+for+coolant&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PLXB_enUS665US665&q=97+ford+f150+engine+drain+plugs+for+coolant&gs_l=hp....0.0.1.314310...........0.nEcvvL26c28

You know, since you are changing the radiator, you'll have the lower hose off. You can stuff a garden hose up there and see what comes out. If ANY sign of trans fluid color, keep cleaning and DO NOT connect the new radiator until all is clean.

Do you have a heater in this truck? Pull both hoses off at the block and alternate a garden hose in each. Flush and back flush.

I know you may cheat somewhere but don't. We need 300K out of this truck.

Henry

Jim2
08-22-2016, 10:30 PM
...just a quick thanks for now Henry. I found that drain plug...

When I first opened it, clean water came out. Apparently, ATF floats.

As it started to slow down, a little atf came dripping out slowly... so I started cleaning the threads in the hole, and I must have poked something loose... A strong flow of "strawberry milkshake" came out after that. So I flushed it via the bottom hose and got a bunch of more junk out of there. :thumb:

I'll post some pics later, I gotta get back to it for now.

Jim2
08-23-2016, 03:02 AM
.....
Clean water at first

http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18907&stc=1

...
Then ATF

http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18908&stc=1

...

It looks like there was a trace amount of oil too

http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18909&stc=1

Jim2
08-23-2016, 03:04 AM
the original gasket vs the one that came with the Napa kit...


http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18910&stc=1



http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18911&stc=1



http://autobodystore.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18912&stc=1

Jim2
08-24-2016, 03:43 AM
Now that I got a few miles on 'er, it seems like the tranny is as good as it ever was.

That's not sayin much.. I was never impressed with this trans right from the start. I was worried about it at first, but then I realized that that's just how they are.

The 4R70W Transmission has always been slow to shift.. I wish I could put a TH350 in there, but that would be silly..

The smoky burnout might have to wait...

For a couple weeks at least... :evil:

Jim2
08-24-2016, 03:58 AM
this is an old old vid... my buddy on the day he heard that his
origanal mentor had passed away. It turned out to be a good day. All ended well, and everybody left smiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj5VtkgSlwA

Jim2
09-02-2016, 04:27 AM
so, now that I got a few miles on er, I want to hear everyone's opinion.

Let me start by saying that the trans feels fine now, now that the new blood has circulated...

But I read some stories about how replacing the tranny fluid on a Ford can lead to "catastrophic failure" ...

The story goes something like this; "The new fluid has a stronger detergent value, and it might knock something loose, which might plug up a servo"

I wish I understood how the 4R70W works, but I don't..

I'm trying to consider the trade-offs between pushing it hard to get the new juice to clean out the "arteries", as opposed to how hard that would be on the old bands.

If anyone here can explain how this transmission works, I'm all ears! and I would really appreciate it...


I'm thinking that pushing it hard up the hill here, before dropping the fluid again, might be the best thing I can do for it.

What do you guys think about that plan?

Jim2
09-02-2016, 04:35 AM
and PS, Henry... I googled additives and I see that everyone says the same thing as you. When I drop the fluid again, I'm just gonna replace it with the Ford fluid... no Lucas... no additives, no nothin...

Jim2
09-02-2016, 04:49 AM
on a side note..

Atf mixed with water is a great cleaning agent!

I should invent this... lol...some of the splatter from rinsing the sidewalk left little "clean spots" on the side of my truck! And that was just from the splashes... It cleaned the alloy rim without me ever touching it too..

Henry
09-02-2016, 06:12 AM
so, now that I got a few miles on er, I want to hear everyone's opinion.

Let me start by saying that the trans feels fine now, now that the new blood has circulated...

But I read some stories about how replacing the tranny fluid on a Ford can lead to "catastrophic failure" ...

The story goes something like this; "The new fluid has a stronger detergent value, and it might knock something loose, which might plug up a servo"

I wish I understood how the 4R70W works, but I don't..

I'm trying to consider the trade-offs between pushing it hard to get the new juice to clean out the "arteries", as opposed to how hard that would be on the old bands.

If anyone here can explain how this transmission works, I'm all ears! and I would really appreciate it...


I'm thinking that pushing it hard up the hill here, before dropping the fluid again, might be the best thing I can do for it.

What do you guys think about that plan?

PLEASE: Can't you just leave well enough alone? You keep fukn with that trans and you will blow it.

Listen, you are correct in that putting fresh trans fluid in an old trans DOES run the risk of blowing something because of the high detergency of the new fluid. You changed yours, it runs so leave it at that SO LONG as any contaminants (coolant/water) are gone.

Ever smell a trans dipstick? Ever smell a burnt smell? That smell is what cooked off from internal parts. So, figure internal parts are worn. That's what the problem with new fluid is. Because of the high detergency, the new fluid hits the old, worn parts, wears them more and that's the end. We used to have a saying, "it'll go or it'll blow".

Just drive the truck normally. Get the trans hot from a good drive on the hi-way, then when you get home, leave it running on level ground and check the fluid level. Keep it full but not over full and don't beat on it.

Beating on your truck would be like putting a 'bitch mark' in a board. (Know what that is?)

Happy motoring!

Henry

Jim2
09-02-2016, 06:45 AM
PLEASE: Can't you just leave well enough alone? You keep fukn with that trans and you will blow it.

Listen, you are correct in that putting fresh trans fluid in an old trans DOES run the risk of blowing something because of the high detergency of the new fluid. You changed yours, it runs so leave it at that SO LONG as any contaminants (coolant/water) are gone.

Ever smell a trans dipstick? Ever smell a burnt smell? That smell is what cooked off from internal parts. So, figure internal parts are worn. That's what the problem with new fluid is. Because of the high detergency, the new fluid hits the old, worn parts, wears them more and that's the end. We used to have a saying, "it'll go or it'll blow".

Just drive the truck normally. Get the trans hot from a good drive on the hi-way, then when you get home, leave it running on level ground and check the fluid level. Keep it full but not over full and don't beat on it.

Beating on your truck would be like putting a 'bitch mark' in a board. (Know what that is?)

Happy motoring!

Henry
heheheh, you know I have a problem with leaving well enough alone Henry.. But I ain't trying to leave a "bitch mark" on it either..

It was a sincere question about running it a little hard before dropping the fluid again. Seems like it would clean out the passages a little.. ?

I've read and heard so much mysterious crap about transmissions... service the fluid, or don't service the fluid if it's old..... yada yada yada... this is the first time I ever dropped the fluid on an old trans. But it had to be done!

So now I find this whole thing to be very interesting. I've been looking into it, and It seems like the best thing I can do is to drop the fluid one more time... after everything gets flushed out/thru.

As for pushing it hard up the hill, it just seems like that would increase the pressure at the servos... so I figure that will flush them out nicely.. but it ain't about leaving bitch marks... it really seems to me that it might be good for the transmission... but the bands... the bands... I wish I had a better understanding about how this transmission actually works.

Henry
09-02-2016, 07:51 AM
heheheh, you know I have a problem with leaving well enough alone Henry.. But I ain't trying to leave a "bitch mark" on it either..

It was a sincere question about running it a little hard before dropping the fluid again. Seems like it would clean out the passages a little.. ?

I've read and heard so much mysterious crap about transmissions... service the fluid, or don't service the fluid if it's old..... yada yada yada... this is the first time I ever dropped the fluid on an old trans. But it had to be done!

So now I find this whole thing to be very interesting. I've been looking into it, and It seems like the best thing I can do is to drop the fluid one more time... after everything gets flushed out/thru.

As for pushing it hard up the hill, it just seems like that would increase the pressure at the servos... so I figure that will flush them out nicely.. but it ain't about leaving bitch marks... it really seems to me that it might be good for the transmission... but the bands... the bands... I wish I had a better understanding about how this transmission actually works.

You never said if you understand what I'm talking about?

Jim, no need to put added strain on the trans by beating it up a hill.

Heat and fluid flow will do more for the trans than what you wanted to do. So, run the truck on the hi-way for 20 miles at 70mph if that's doable for you. Remember, after a good run like this to check the fluid as I said previously (keep the engine running). Before you go on a drive, shift the trans to all the gears a couple times and keep it in each gear a couple minutes. This helps move fluid to all areas of the trans.

Here's a quick test of how your trans is doing.

Quick shifting means things are good. Sluggish to slurred shifting for upshifting is not desirable but nothing wrong as long as there is no SLIPPING between gears.

If you feel you need to drop the pan again and drain & refill, make certain you have the correct amount of the proper fluid, a new filter and pan gasket and torque or tighten the pan in sequence.

ON THE PAN: You know though the years people tend to retighten pan bolts. Often, they tighten one more that the other. This practice case to pan to go out of shape. SO, with the pan off, check for straight and level across all four sides. Straighten it if it is other than perfectly straight before you reinstall.

Henry

Jim2
09-02-2016, 06:45 PM
You never said if you understand what I'm talking about?

Jim, no need to put added strain on the trans by beating it up a hill.

Heat and fluid flow will do more for the trans than what you wanted to do. So, run the truck on the hi-way for 20 miles at 70mph if that's doable for you. Remember, after a good run like this to check the fluid as I said previously (keep the engine running). Before you go on a drive, shift the trans to all the gears a couple times and keep it in each gear a couple minutes. This helps move fluid to all areas of the trans.

Here's a quick test of how your trans is doing.

Quick shifting means things are good. Sluggish to slurred shifting for upshifting is not desirable but nothing wrong as long as there is no SLIPPING between gears.

If you feel you need to drop the pan again and drain & refill, make certain you have the correct amount of the proper fluid, a new filter and pan gasket and torque or tighten the pan in sequence.

ON THE PAN: You know though the years people tend to retighten pan bolts. Often, they tighten one more that the other. This practice case to pan to go out of shape. SO, with the pan off, check for straight and level across all four sides. Straighten it if it is other than perfectly straight before you reinstall.

Henry

Thanks Henry,

I'm not sure what you're referring to with your first question. I think I understand all the things you've said...

I definitely understand about the pan being straight and that some people over-tighten the bolts sometimes. I've seen that one before, and I've had trouble with a couple transmission pans in the past. ...This one went good though, no drips..

As for the "sluggish shifting", this truck has just always been like that. When I first got it, I was concerned about it, but then I found that it's normal with these transmissions (4R70W). On one of the Ford websites, there's an article about the "J-Mod" that's supposed to improve the performance on these. Supposedly, it would make it downshift quicker and more solidly... but I'm just gonna leave mine "as is"...

I'll probably give it another week before dropping the fluid again. I don't get too many long drives on the highway like you described, it's usually only 5-8 miles before I'm back on the side streets again. I'll have to find an excuse to take a long ride, maybe we'll get some big surf on the north shore or something.

Thanks again Henry :thumb:

Bob K
09-03-2016, 09:56 AM
Donít worry about those stories of transmission failure when new fluid is installed. They have a grain of truth but not what youíd think, rather itís that the transmission was starting to fail and the guy changed the fluid instead of getting it rebuilt. Then he drives it and the clutch or oil pump that was almost gone continues to deteriorate and the transmission finally fails just as it would have done if the fluid wasnít changed.

Bob K

Jim2
09-04-2016, 06:04 AM
Donít worry about those stories of transmission failure when new fluid is installed. They have a grain of truth but not what youíd think, rather itís that the transmission was starting to fail and the guy changed the fluid instead of getting it rebuilt. Then he drives it and the clutch or oil pump that was almost gone continues to deteriorate and the transmission finally fails just as it would have done if the fluid wasnít changed.

Bob K

Thanks Bob. I always wondered about that one, "maybe it was ready to go anyway".. No doubt, that's often true.

But recently I read a few stories about how the fresh fluid has more detergent value, so it might knock a chunk of sludge loose, which could then plug up a servo. That one kinda makes sense too, but I don't know what actually goes on inside the trans. I wish I understood it better...

Henry
09-04-2016, 08:49 AM
Thanks Bob. I always wondered about that one, "maybe it was ready to go anyway".. No doubt, that's often true.

But recently I read a few stories about how the fresh fluid has more detergent value, so it might knock a chunk of sludge loose, which could then plug up a servo. That one kinda makes sense too, but I don't know what actually goes on inside the trans. I wish I understood it better...

Bob is correct in that a burnt (smell-brown/black fluid) is a strong indication of wear.

You always take the chance of draining and refilling with new fluid. It's not a wives tale but it will depend on how worn and for how long it's been worn along with other factors. Rule of thumb:

It'll go or it'll blow! Also.......

Bandages aren't made for open wounds.

I'm sure Bob will agree with this one, for you, don't beat that truck!

Henry

Jim2
09-04-2016, 05:01 PM
....

I'm sure Bob will agree with this one, for you, don't beat that truck!

Henry
haha, ok, thanks you guys. :thumb:

All Dry
10-09-2016, 12:24 AM
Donít worry about those stories of transmission failure when new fluid is installed. They have a grain of truth but not what youíd think, rather itís that the transmission was starting to fail and the guy changed the fluid instead of getting it rebuilt. Then he drives it and the clutch or oil pump that was almost gone continues to deteriorate and the transmission finally fails just as it would have done if the fluid wasnít changed.

Bob K Hi Bob ,The part of that story that does bear some truth is that once the friction discs between the steels are worn out in the clutch packs of the trans all the friction material that normally was on the discs that locks to the steel plates is now floating around in the fluid and that is the only thing giving grab to the clutch packs.Once you replace the fluid then all the remaining friction material is now all gone and the trans immediately slips from the clean fluid.But as you stated the transmission is always on its way out in spite of the fluid change. Mike

Phil V
10-22-2016, 03:37 AM
When it comes to older cars/trucks and transmissions it seems that in most cases people trying to take the horse out after the barn burns. Meaning the transmission doesn't get any attention until there are already problems. " if it an't broke then I won't fix it ". People will drive a vehicle until the trans starts slipping, getting their attention. Most peoples first reaction to a slipping trans is they think changing the tranny fluid and new filter will make the trans drive like new again. As previously stated if all the friction material in the clutch pacs are worn off then nothing short of replacing the clutch pacs will make it drive normally again. That's the same scenario with "transmission additives". People think putting some miracle transmission additive is like a "new transmission in a can". I agree with Henry, don't add any additives to the trans fluid. Lets be honest here, Jim. Your '98 truck with 190,000+ miles was on borrowed time as far as transmission go before you had the fluid/water mix problem.

Question - when you dropped the trans pan the first time was there any gray crud buildup in the bottom (inside) of the pan ? That should give you an indication of what shape your clutch pacs are in as far as wear. That gray crud buildup at the bottom of a trans pan is mostly clutch material.
Also look very close for tiny metal fragments (looks a little like fine metallic paint). If the inside of the pan was clean when you removed the pan the first time then you should be good to go for another 100K miles.

Jim2
10-22-2016, 04:20 AM
When it comes to older cars/trucks and transmissions it seems that in most cases people trying to take the horse out after the barn burns. Meaning the transmission doesn't get any attention until there are already problems. " if it an't broke then I won't fix it ". People will drive a vehicle until the trans starts slipping, getting their attention. Most peoples first reaction to a slipping trans is they think changing the tranny fluid and new filter will make the trans drive like new again. As previously stated if all the friction material in the clutch pacs are worn off then nothing short of replacing the clutch pacs will make it drive normally again. That's the same scenario with "transmission additives". People think putting some miracle transmission additive is like a "new transmission in a can". I agree with Henry, don't add any additives to the trans fluid. Lets be honest here, Jim. Your '98 truck with 190,000+ miles was on borrowed time as far as transmission go before you had the fluid/water mix problem.

Question - when you dropped the trans pan the first time was there any gray crud buildup in the bottom (inside) of the pan ? That should give you an indication of what shape your clutch pacs are in as far as wear. That gray crud buildup at the bottom of a trans pan is mostly clutch material.
Also look very close for tiny metal fragments (looks a little like fine metallic paint). If the inside of the pan was clean when you removed the pan the first time then you should be good to go for another 100K miles.

Thanks Phil.. There was some black slime stuck to the magnet in the transmission pan, but I think that's just normal wear.

The trans seems fine now, and I still didn't even flush the fluid again. As I got more mileage on it, it just got better and better... It seems to be as good as it ever was now. I might not even bother to flush the fluid again.

There was never anything wrong with the trans, aside from the fact that I never really liked the way it shifts in the first place.

The problem was the at radiator, allowing the fluids to mix... The leak was at the radiator too..

Even with that watery mix inside the trans, the only time it would slip was when the trans fluid got low. Whenever I would top it off, it worked fine. "water and all"..

Now, with the new juice in there, it seems as good as ever, if not better. I still might flush the fluid one more time, just on principle alone... but that task has slipped way down on my "to do list" these days.

Phil V
10-24-2016, 11:38 AM
Thanks Phil.. There was some black slime stuck to the magnet in the transmission pan, but I think that's just normal wear.

The trans seems fine now, and I still didn't even flush the fluid again. As I got more mileage on it, it just got better and better... It seems to be as good as it ever was now. I might not even bother to flush the fluid again.

There was never anything wrong with the trans, aside from the fact that I never really liked the way it shifts in the first place.

The problem was the at radiator, allowing the fluids to mix... The leak was at the radiator too..

Even with that watery mix inside the trans, the only time it would slip was when the trans fluid got low. Whenever I would top it off, it worked fine. "water and all"..

Now, with the new juice in there, it seems as good as ever, if not better. I still might flush the fluid one more time, just on principle alone... but that task has slipped way down on my "to do list" these days.

Jim, if there was still a moisture problem in the trans then the tranny fluid on the dipstick would still be a little milky. If the fluid on the dip stick is a nice clear red color then you should be good to go.

Jim2
11-12-2016, 11:22 PM
The trans went out today...

Maybe I should've flushed the fluid one more time, or maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway...

After doing all this, at first, the transmission felt good. "better than ever" ..

The other day, it seemed like it was "short shifting" a little.. Like it would run through the gears a little faster than usual... but it was very slight, and I wondered if it was just in my head.

Today, I felt it slipping on the highway a little bit. Just a little.

After a few more miles, and a little bit of hills and back roads, there was definitely something dying in there. Next thing I know, it's making a whirring sound and slipping badly. Pulling away from a redlight was hard on it.

So I got to side and checked the fluid. There was plenty fluid, so I tried to limp it home... I made it about half way, but then had to leave it in the parking lot of a store that I frequent. They said I can leave it there for now..

Bummer... I guess I need to find a transmission now. Or another truck..

Henry
11-14-2016, 10:58 AM
The trans went out today...

Maybe I should've flushed the fluid one more time, or maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway...

After doing all this, at first, the transmission felt good. "better than ever" ..

The other day, it seemed like it was "short shifting" a little.. Like it would run through the gears a little faster than usual... but it was very slight, and I wondered if it was just in my head.

Today, I felt it slipping on the highway a little bit. Just a little.

After a few more miles, and a little bit of hills and back roads, there was definitely something dying in there. Next thing I know, it's making a whirring sound and slipping badly. Pulling away from a redlight was hard on it.

So I got to side and checked the fluid. There was plenty fluid, so I tried to limp it home... I made it about half way, but then had to leave it in the parking lot of a store that I frequent. They said I can leave it there for now..

Bummer... I guess I need to find a transmission now. Or another truck..

Decisions!

On the one hand you got more than your money out of that truck so the seed to replace it is firmly planted.

However, if everything else is good in that truck then a (good) trans transplant would be how I might go. Being NOT 4 wheel drive it's not that bad a deal to change it out even for a shop.

Biggest issue is to find another trans in good condition that won't go in a couple hundred miles. But you would face the same thing if you bought another older used truck. Find out what the spread is for commonality for the trans you have.

Don't you have any sources there who can help you out? I wish you well on this one and keep us posted.

I would guess there isn't even rust or rot on that truck.

Henry

Bob K
11-14-2016, 11:41 AM
If you have a 4.2L engine then I found 2 transmissions for $750 ea in Kapolei, high mileage though.

Bob K

Jim2
11-14-2016, 02:08 PM
If you have a 4.2L engine then I found 2 transmissions for $750 ea in Kapolei, high mileage though.

Bob K
Wow Bob, how did you find that so fast? I did some searches and I keep finding places on eBay (that won't ship to Hawaii), but I didn't seen that place in Kapolei..

I'm still not sure exactly what I'll do yet, but I'm leaning toward either a rebuilt trans, or replace the whole truck. There's a bit to consider...

A local transmission shop will do the whole rebuild, with upgraded valves and such, for 1800.

Jim2
11-14-2016, 02:21 PM
Decisions!

On the one hand you got more than your money out of that truck so the seed to replace it is firmly planted.

However, if everything else is good in that truck then a (good) trans transplant would be how I might go. Being NOT 4 wheel drive it's not that bad a deal to change it out even for a shop.

Biggest issue is to find another trans in good condition that won't go in a couple hundred miles. But you would face the same thing if you bought another older used truck. Find out what the spread is for commonality for the trans you have.

Don't you have any sources there who can help you out? I wish you well on this one and keep us posted.

I would guess there isn't even rust or rot on that truck.

Henry

Yup, that's the big consideration Henry... Is it worth it?

I just got a price from a good local shop, 1800 to rebuild it. And it would only be a few days turnaround. I dealt with these guys in the past, when I worked at my friend Willy's shop, and they're good.

My truck has a little rust on top, but it's not "rotted out". It needs a few other things too, but I'm still not sure if I could find a replacement for 2K that would be as good. At least, with mine, I already know what I have.

I guess I should do a compression test before I decide. 196K miles now, so that might be some crucial info.

The engine runs fine, but there's a little sound in the front that I suspect is one of the pulleys. The serpentine belt shows a little wear too. Aside from that, the lower control arm bushings are getting a little play, but it's not too bad yet.

Bob K
11-14-2016, 02:53 PM
Wow Bob, how did you find that so fast? I did some searches and I keep finding places on eBay (that won't ship to Hawaii), but I didn't seen that place in Kapolei..

I did a search of Car-part.com I use that site a lot. I set HI as the state to look for parts in the fourth box.

Bob K

Jim2
11-14-2016, 03:03 PM
I did a search of Car-part.com I use that site a lot. I set HI as the state to look for parts in the fourth box.

Bob K

Cool site Bob, thanks! I bookmarked it :thumb:

Henry
11-15-2016, 07:53 AM
Wow Bob, how did you find that so fast? I did some searches and I keep finding places on eBay (that won't ship to Hawaii), but I didn't seen that place in Kapolei..

I'm still not sure exactly what I'll do yet, but I'm leaning toward either a rebuilt trans, or replace the whole truck. There's a bit to consider...

A local transmission shop will do the whole rebuild, with upgraded valves and such, for 1800.

$1800 is way too much for me for that trans. AND, there is no way I would buy a used trans on ebay.

Are there no junk yards where you are? I would even look for a compatible truck with a blown motor or smashed that someone can tell you the trans is still good and do the change myself.

At least (and this depends on price) at a junk yard they want to sell you a good trans (even though they don't know) and if it fails, you can exchange it. Lots of work for you but............

Since it's your "work truck" ask Donald how you can claim the expense on your income tax.

Keep us posted.

Henry

CraigS
11-15-2016, 11:38 AM
It's Hawaii. Everything costs more.

Jim2
11-17-2016, 07:20 PM
$1800 is way too much for me for that trans. AND, there is no way I would buy a used trans on ebay.

Are there no junk yards where you are? I would even look for a compatible truck with a blown motor or smashed that someone can tell you the trans is still good and do the change myself.

At least (and this depends on price) at a junk yard they want to sell you a good trans (even though they don't know) and if it fails, you can exchange it. Lots of work for you but............

Since it's your "work truck" ask Donald how you can claim the expense on your income tax.

Keep us posted.

Henry

Too late Henry, it's at the shop. It's a complete rebuild, and I trust this shop. I hope to have it back by saturday.

I called one other place by mistake, and they wanted 2300 to do it.

If I tried to do it by myself, in the street, it would take much longer. I just have to get it done asap... even though the truck is barely worth that much.. time is of the essence.

It's been a real long time since anyone else worked on any of my vehicles... At least 15-20 years... My streak is broken. But I don't always win when I try to do stuff myself, so I let them have at it.

I didn't want to take a chance on a used transmission, and I didn't find any rebuilt ones that would ship to Hawaii anyway. And, even if I did, I'm sure the price +shipping would've easily been 1800 before I even got started on it. And on top of that, I don't like swapping transmissions in the first place. I've done it twice, and that's enough for me. Maybe if I had a real shop, it wouldn't be so bad. But I don't. So I'm glad someone else is doing it.

Henry
11-18-2016, 07:32 AM
Wish I could be like you in turning things over to someone else to get done. Be it my house or vehicles, I do it all myself basically, because I can't trust anyone.

People I would have used of years ago either don't do it anymore or they are gone.

Good luck with yours and hopefully, come Saturday you can sing along with Willie Nelson (On The Road Again!)

Henry

bmarler
11-18-2016, 11:25 AM
Too late Henry, it's at the shop. It's a complete rebuild, and I trust this shop. I hope to have it back by saturday.

I called one other place by mistake, and they wanted 2300 to do it.

If I tried to do it by myself, in the street, it would take much longer. I just have to get it done asap... even though the truck is barely worth that much.. time is of the essence.

It's been a real long time since anyone else worked on any of my vehicles... At least 15-20 years... My streak is broken. But I don't always win when I try to do stuff myself, so I let them have at it.

I didn't want to take a chance on a used transmission, and I didn't find any rebuilt ones that would ship to Hawaii anyway. And, even if I did, I'm sure the price +shipping would've easily been 1800 before I even got started on it. And on top of that, I don't like swapping transmissions in the first place. I've done it twice, and that's enough for me. Maybe if I had a real shop, it wouldn't be so bad. But I don't. So I'm glad someone else is doing it.

you should try rebuildling one yourself sometime jim. it's like everything else you learn. once you break it down into steps anyone can do it. the kits are reasonably priced, and it's really kind of fun. gotta have room to lay it all out though, and a way to clean everything... just sayin

Jim2
11-18-2016, 01:08 PM
you should try rebuildling one yourself sometime jim. it's like everything else you learn. once you break it down into steps anyone can do it. the kits are reasonably priced, and it's really kind of fun. gotta have room to lay it all out though, and a way to clean everything... just sayin

Actually, if I had the time and the space, I would love to do it myself. :thumb:

I have no idea what goes on inside there, so it would be interesting to see it all. I saw an exploded picture of a T350 trans once, and that was easy enough to understand. This one, not so much..

Taking it out of the truck while parked at the curb ain't no fun though. I would have to buy a good jack and all.. But thanks for the encouragement!

Jim2
11-18-2016, 01:24 PM
Wish I could be like you in turning things over to someone else to get done. Be it my house or vehicles, I do it all myself basically, because I can't trust anyone.

People I would have used of years ago either don't do it anymore or they are gone.

Good luck with yours and hopefully, come Saturday you can sing along with Willie Nelson (On The Road Again!)

Henry

Yeah, I have that same problem too Henry. I don't really like working on cars anymore, but I do it when I have to. I like to know exactly what's going on in there.

Usually I come out way ahead too. I save a lot of money, and it's worth my time. But there's been one or two times when it didn't work out so good... I tried to do the timing belt on a Ford escort years ago, but I messed it up. Long story short, I bent a valve. So I drove it around on three cylinders for a couple weeks, and then drove it to the junkyard and got $50 for it..

But I do trust this transmission shop. I dealt with them a couple times when I was working at my friend's shop. They're honest, reasonable, and they know what they're doing. It's a family business where the grandma answers the phone... The place is a mess, with cars and transmissions all over the place. To me, that's a good sign. It means they're always busy.

PS, I'll be playing "On the Road Again" at the Honolulu marathon next month. It's part of our set list :)

Jim2
12-11-2017, 09:16 PM
Wow, it's been a year already?

I was gonna post on another thread in this forum, but I see I never ended this thread..

The shop took longer than expected, but they got it fixed and it's still fine.

I asked them about what parts they put in there to rebuild it, and it was mostly servos and such. I forget the details...

The one detail that I DO remember is that they didn't change the bands. They said they just sanded the old bands and re-used them. I still don't know exactly what that means (since I don't know what the bands look like), but now it's a year later and the trans is still fine.

I guess the warranty just ran out though... fingers crossed...

The truck is over 200K now, and it has other issues, but she still goes!