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Jim2
03-18-2015, 04:44 AM
I didn't think it would be this bad....

My bike has been sitting for about three years now.. time flies..

(Note to self; Don't ever let this happen again...)

I was hoping to hear my bike run again today. I knew it was froze up, but I didn't think it would be this hard to free it up.

A friend helped me clean the carbs.. or should I say, I helped him.. I mostly just watched, but he knew what he was doing. I learned a few things today..

So the carbs got all cleaned up and ready to go back on, but the motor is seized pretty bad.

I thought I would be able to free it by rolling it down the hill and "bumping it" in 5th gear. We pushed it up the hill twice, and got three good "bumps" each time, but the rear tire just skids..

So we sprayed a ton of PB Blaster into the cylinders, pretty much "filled them up", and it's soaking in right now.

I hope this works... otherwise it might turn into a full "top end" job. The gaskets alone will cost more than $200.. But then again, it might be nice to have a fresh top end... Freshly honed cylinders, new rings, it would be nice.. I'm just not sure if it's worth it. And I'm a little scared to see what kind of rust we'll find on the cylinder walls.

In a way, I just want to break it loose and get it running.
But the other part of me says that moving the pistons inside those cylinders will scar the hell out of the cylinders.

I'd be interested to hear you guys' opinions..

Jim2
03-18-2015, 04:51 AM
..........................

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1790_zpsookgtgjl.jpg

Jim2
03-18-2015, 04:56 AM
This is the thermostat... lesson learned... I will never let this happen again..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1801_zpsvuvaixpv.jpg

Henry
03-18-2015, 05:40 AM
This is the thermostat... lesson learned... I will never let this happen again..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1801_zpsvuvaixpv.jpg

DUMMY!!!


What a mess!

Henry
03-18-2015, 05:47 AM
I didn't think it would be this bad....

My bike has been sitting for about three years now.. time flies..

(Note to self; Don't ever let this happen again...)

I was hoping to hear my bike run again today. I knew it was froze up, but I didn't think it would be this hard to free it up.

A friend helped me clean the carbs.. or should I say, I helped him.. I mostly just watched, but he knew what he was doing. I learned a few things today..

So the carbs got all cleaned up and ready to go back on, but the motor is seized pretty bad.

I thought I would be able to free it by rolling down it the hill and "bumping it" in 5th gear. We pushed it up the hill twice, and got three good "bumps" each time, but the rear tire just skids..

So we sprayed a ton of PB Blaster into the cylinders, pretty much "filled them up", and it's soaking in right now.

I hope this works... otherwise it might turn into a full "top end" job. The gaskets alone will cost more than $200.. But then again, it might be nice to have a fresh top end... Freshly honed cylinders, new rings, it would be nice.. I'm just not sure if it's worth it. And I'm a little scared to see what kind of rust we'll find on the cylinder walls.

In a way, I just want to break it loose and get it running.
But the other part of me says that moving the pistons inside those cylinders will scar the hell out of the cylinders.

I'd be interested to hear you guys' opinions..

Soon as it frees up (hopefully), don't let it run without getting that PB kerosene out of it completely. Even get oil into it, move the motor around, drain that also. Do that a couple/few times. You know, oil down the spark plug hole too. Good luck.

Henry

Hurry up with it too cause that FORD is about to start acting up again. (hope not)

Jim2
03-18-2015, 06:43 AM
Soon as it frees up (hopefully), don't let it run without getting that PB kerosene out of it completely. Even get oil into it, move the motor around, drain that also. Do that a couple/few times. You know, oil down the spark plug hole too. Good luck.

Henry

Hurry up with it too cause that FORD is about to start acting up again. (hope not)

Haaardy har har Henry, ... I don't want to jinx it, but I think the Ford will run for a good long time still (knocking wood)..

For the oil in the bike, I absolutely intend to change it "at least twice".
The first time, I'll use cheap oil (with Seafoam). The second time, I'll use the good oil.

I only posted that pic because is was so shocking. When we first pulled the hose off, it almost looked like it was snowing or something.. I was gonna dunk it in "CLR" , but the label said not to use it on aluminum... One way or another, I'll clean that baby up nice before putting it back on.

I'm still torn about wether I should do the whole top end or not..
I want to hear the CB run, and the sooner the better, but I don't want to cause irreparable damage to the cylinders either.

I'm kinda leaning towards doing the whole top end,, but it looks like a big job. My friend thinks we can do it in a couple days (maybe one "long" day), but it looks daunting to me. I can just imagine the rust nightmare that we'll find inside..

Bob K
03-18-2015, 09:20 AM
A few years ago I got 2 boat motors running for a friend. Then had been under water and then sat a few years without running. They were both froze up. I got a can of something from the boat yard that was made for that kind of repair. Filled the cylinders through the spark plug holes and let it sit over night. Next day they turned over. Then I went on to the carbs and such. Both motors start and run now.

Now the bad news, I don't have the can and I can't remember what it was. I think it was an oil base with an acid mixed in. Try some of the good boat yards on the Island and see if they have anything. The shop I went to was a Mer-Cruser dealer if that helps but I think the stuff had an after market name.

Bob K

Phil V
03-18-2015, 10:00 AM
Jim, at this point scoring the cylinder walls with rust is the least of your worries. What is much more likely is the rings locking up in the piston grooves (crap shoot whether that happens or not.) the odds are the rings will be OK and not locked up in the piston grooves. Unless the rust is really bad then what little flakes of rust are in the cylinder will get blown out the exhaust, rarely does it do permanent damage. Rust pits in the cylinder wall can cause oil consumption depending on how deep the rust pits are. If the bike were mine I would do just as you have done up to this point with the PB Blaster in the plug hole. I'd let it sit overnight like you are doing then I would pull the stator cover and put a socket wrench on the large nut at the stator/crank shaft and try loosening the seized piston(s) working the crank counter clock wise then clock wise back and forth. Hit the wrench lightly with a dead blow hammer (don't force it if it doesn't want to move at all). It will start to move a little at a time if you work it back and forth. Breaking it loose by bump starting it not a good idea, you need to work it back and forth. Besides changing the oil I would absolutely flush the coolant system with fresh water then add antifreeze after. Some people would think " he lives in Hawaii why would he need antifreeze " and the answer is antifreeze/coolant not only lowers the freezing temperature but it also raises the boiling temperature.

junk
03-18-2015, 10:09 AM
I'm with Bob and Phil on how to get that engine turning. Soak it and get on the crank so you can work it back and forth.

We free'd up the engine in a 1947 John Deere B tractor. We put diesel fuel in and let it soak. Then I think I put 50/50 acetone and ATF and let it sit. It soaked easily a weak if not two. I'd top off the cylinders every few days. We put the tractor in gear and rocked it back and forth until it would spin over. It actually ran pretty good once we got it started.

- Jeremy

Jim2
03-18-2015, 03:58 PM
Thanks you guys. I'll just keep soaking it for a while then..


..pull the stator cover and put a socket wrench on the large nut at the stator/crank shaft and try loosening the seized piston(s) working the crank counter clock wise then clock wise back and forth.

We tried that too Phil... also, with it in gear, we bumped it back and forth many times too. This thing is really stuck good! It didn't budge (yet).

After trying everything else, we tried pumping hot water through it with the hope that something might expand a little. Unfortunately, the hose was pretty long and so the water wasn't as hot by the time it got to the bike. It did warm the jugs up a little bit, but not much. ...At least the system is nicely flushed out now..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YYxJVJXLA

The thermostat is at the top of the system, so all that calcium (in the previous picture) must've grown over the years because it wasn't submerged. The water that came out of the engine wasn't too bad.

My friend has some kind of rust destroyer that he says works great. He said it's an acid "like vinegar", and we considered pouring that stuff in there. But I'm a little nervous about pouring acid into the engine, I figure I'll give the PB Blaster a chance first.

Len
03-18-2015, 05:57 PM
When we were kids (20 years old) a bunch of friends and I had a car that had sat for several years with a seized engine so we removed the plugs and poured oil in all the cylinders. The next weekend we got together and put some jumpers on the car and, while several of us leaned against the fenders the car's owner hit the key. Needless to say all the guys including myself got covered with oil but the guy that hit the key got a big kick out of it.

:dunce:

Jim2
03-18-2015, 10:43 PM
Lol Len, thanks, I'll keep that in mind ;)

Jim2
03-19-2015, 01:25 AM
PB Blaster is "awesome sauce" ... even if it cost $20 per can, I would still buy it..

I just put a socket on that stator bolt, and she broke loose easily..

I didn't get a full revolution yet... The bolt came loose when I tried to turn it back, but at least the pistons moved, and it made my day! :D

Jim2
03-19-2015, 01:52 AM
Jim, at this point scoring the cylinder walls with rust is the least of your worries. What is much more likely is the rings locking up in the piston grooves....

Roger that Phil.. I guess the rings might have to "re-seat" now?

I never saw it with my own eyes, but I've heard plenty stories about what you just described.

From what I'm told, there's probably a "haze" of rust on the cylinder walls, "but only above the pistons"... And that's why it's better to spin it backwards first.... Makes perfect sense to me.

I heard that Marvel Mystery Oil is great for re-seating rings. "Just pour a cap full into each cylinder and run it"..

But, after filling each cylinder with PB Blaster, I doubt anything is stuck anymore... PB has saved my ass quite a few times now. It's amazing what that stuff can do...

junk
03-19-2015, 07:33 AM
That's awesome man! Nothing better than getting an engine moving. Yeah now my biggest concern would be excessive smoking from stuck rings. I'm a big fan of miracle in a bottle like seafoam. I'd probably put some in the gas and oil and first trying to get everything cleaned up.

Now that it turns I might try rocking it in gear back and forth. Since that nut came loose. They'll never come loose when you need them too, but always do when you don't need them too.

Jeremy

Henry
03-19-2015, 10:03 AM
PB Blaster is "awesome sauce" ... even if it cost $20 per can, I would still buy it..

I just put a socket on that stator bolt, and she broke loose easily..

I didn't get a full revolution yet... The bolt came loose when I tried to turn it back, but at least the pistons moved, and it made my day! :D

So glad you got your nut loose!

Back in the day upon rebuilding motors, we used to use Marvel Mystery Oil. Not sure if it's still around or if that's what you guys are talking about.

Also glad the PB worked for you. I CANNOT stand the stuff. For the times I've use it, it stinks and takes too long to work. I use Break-Away which acts much more quickly. So it cost 1/3 more.

Bottom line, glad it turns. This means you will (should have) ICPE and it will run. You'll be cruis'n in no time!

Henry

Phil V
03-19-2015, 11:19 AM
Roger that Phil.. I guess the rings might have to "re-seat" now?

I never saw it with my own eyes, but I've heard plenty stories about what you just described.

From what I'm told, there's probably a "haze" of rust on the cylinder walls, "but only above the pistons"... And that's why it's better to spin it backwards first.... Makes perfect sense to me.

I heard that Marvel Mystery Oil is great for re-seating rings. "Just pour a cap full into each cylinder and run it"..

But, after filling each cylinder with PB Blaster, I doubt anything is stuck anymore... PB has saved my ass quite a few times now. It's amazing what that stuff can do...

Jim, when you get the engine to where it turns full 360 deg (spins free with the plugs out) then next would be taking a compression check of each cylinder. That will tell if you have any compression rings stuck in the piston grooves. You really shouldn't have any problems with the rings stuck in the grooves with an engine that has sat for only three years. (unless you let it set outside in the rain with the spark plugs out). Actually I'm surprised the engine was stuck at all after only three years sitting, not a common occurrence around here in that short of a time span. If the compression rings are not stuck then the next thing would be the possibility of the oil rings being stuck. You'll find out right away when you fire the bike up (after you burn off the PB Blaster and oil you poured in the spark plug hole. If it keeps smoking after you burn off the stuff you poured in the cylinder and the compression is good then the oil rings are stuck.

A week ago I picked up a 2004 John Deere HPX 4x4 Gator that runs crappy but at least we drove it on and off the trailer to get it home. I paid $2200 for the machine with a full Curtis cab (sloping glass windshield and lot of other glass) and a cab heater. It was used commercially by I think a large apartment complex for a maintenance vehicle. Those HPX gators have a tendency for the front driveshaft carrier bearing to freeze up so on mine the idiot torched a section out of the front drive shaft and then they torched out a section of both front axle shafts. If they had just cut the shafts with a torch I could just replace the carrier bearing and weld the shafts back up but that isn't going to happen now. I picked up a front drive shaft carrier bearing and a new drive shaft section to replace the section they torched that cost me close to $150. A complete front driveshaft is close to $500 from John Deere. Both front axle shafts are a little over $200 a piece. Which will make it a 4 wheel drive again instead of rear wheel only. I took the carburetor apart, soaked most of the parts in a carb cleaner solution then cleaned it in water and used compressed air to make sure all the passages are clean and open. I had to make 3 carb mounting gaskets out of gasket material which worked fine. In about a half hour I'm going to re-install the carb and try and tune it in. A new carb even on ebay is $450 which I really don't want to spend as long as I can dial in the old carb. I have to check the intake and exhaust valves and reset them before I try and dial in the carburetor. Waste of time trying to dial in a carb when the valves are out of adjustment. I also have new spark plugs, again a necessity for tuning a carb. Air cleaner looks new so one more variable eliminated.

I have a Yamaha gas golf cart I customized last summer with custom paint, 6" lift, custom wheels ant large tires, hand made curved windshield, folding rear seat etc etc and I'm debating of whether to keep the Gator and sell the golf cart or vice versa. I could put a snow plow on the gator and get year round use of it. Then I could also sell my John Deere 420 tractor with shaft drive snowblower on it. Decisions, decisions. LOL. I really like tinkering on machines like Gator, golf cart and bigger John Deere garden tractors.

Henry
03-19-2015, 12:30 PM
Jim, when you get the engine to where it turns full 360 deg (spins free with the plugs out) then next would be taking a compression check of each cylinder. That will tell if you have any compression rings stuck in the piston grooves. You really shouldn't have any problems with the rings stuck in the grooves with an engine that has sat for only three years. (unless you let it set outside in the rain with the spark plugs out). Actually I'm surprised the engine was stuck at all after only three years sitting, not a common occurrence around here in that short of a time span. If the compression rings are not stuck then the next thing would be the possibility of the oil rings being stuck. You'll find out right away when you fire the bike up (after you burn off the PB Blaster and oil you poured in the spark plug hole. If it keeps smoking after you burn off the stuff you poured in the cylinder and the compression is good then the oil rings are stuck.

A week ago I picked up a 2004 John Deere HPX 4x4 Gator that runs crappy but at least we drove it on and off the trailer to get it home. I paid $2200 for the machine with a full Curtis cab (sloping glass windshield and lot of other glass) and a cab heater. It was used commercially by I think a large apartment complex for a maintenance vehicle. Those HPX gators have a tendency for the front driveshaft carrier bearing to freeze up so on mine the idiot torched a section out of the front drive shaft and then they torched out a section of both front axle shafts. If they had just cut the shafts with a torch I could just replace the carrier bearing and weld the shafts back up but that isn't going to happen now. I picked up a front drive shaft carrier bearing and a new drive shaft section to replace the section they torched that cost me close to $150. A complete front driveshaft is close to $500 from John Deere. Both front axle shafts are a little over $200 a piece. Which will make it a 4 wheel drive again instead of rear wheel only. I took the carburetor apart, soaked most of the parts in a carb cleaner solution then cleaned it in water and used compressed air to make sure all the passages are clean and open. I had to make 3 carb mounting gaskets out of gasket material which worked fine. In about a half hour I'm going to re-install the carb and try and tune it in. A new carb even on ebay is $450 which I really don't want to spend as long as I can dial in the old carb. I have to check the intake and exhaust valves and reset them before I try and dial in the carburetor. Waste of time trying to dial in a carb when the valves are out of adjustment. I also have new spark plugs, again a necessity for tuning a carb. Air cleaner looks new so one more variable eliminated.

I have a Yamaha gas golf cart I customized last summer with custom paint, 6" lift, custom wheels ant large tires, hand made curved windshield, folding rear seat etc etc and I'm debating of whether to keep the Gator and sell the golf cart or vice versa. I could put a snow plow on the gator and get year round use of it. Then I could also sell my John Deere 420 tractor with shaft drive snowblower on it. Decisions, decisions. LOL. I really like tinkering on machines like Gator, golf cart and bigger John Deere garden tractors.

I like that golf cart you posted (if the same one) and if you have the room I would keep it.

That GATOR in 4 x 4 is an expensive item. Since you get lots of snow, I would keep that thing with a plow forever. If you ever wanted to you could sell that thing in a day for handsome money. I know you'll keep us posted.

Henry

Jim2
03-20-2015, 01:13 AM
Jim, when you get the engine to where it turns full 360 deg (spins free with the plugs out) then next would be taking a compression check of each cylinder. That will tell if you have any compression rings stuck in the piston grooves. You really shouldn't have any problems with the rings stuck in the grooves with an engine that has sat for only three years. (unless you let it set outside in the rain with the spark plugs out). Actually I'm surprised the engine was stuck at all after only three years sitting, not a common occurrence around here in that short of a time span. If the compression rings are not stuck then the next thing would be the possibility of the oil rings being stuck. You'll find out right away when you fire the bike up (after you burn off the PB Blaster and oil you poured in the spark plug hole. If it keeps smoking after you burn off the stuff you poured in the cylinder and the compression is good then the oil rings are stuck.

A week ago I picked up a 2004 John Deere HPX 4x4 Gator that runs crappy but at least we drove it on and off the trailer to get it home. I paid $2200 for the machine with a full Curtis cab (sloping glass windshield and lot of other glass) and a cab heater. It was used commercially by I think a large apartment complex for a maintenance vehicle. Those HPX gators have a tendency for the front driveshaft carrier bearing to freeze up so on mine the idiot torched a section out of the front drive shaft and then they torched out a section of both front axle shafts. If they had just cut the shafts with a torch I could just replace the carrier bearing and weld the shafts back up but that isn't going to happen now. I picked up a front drive shaft carrier bearing and a new drive shaft section to replace the section they torched that cost me close to $150. A complete front driveshaft is close to $500 from John Deere. Both front axle shafts are a little over $200 a piece. Which will make it a 4 wheel drive again instead of rear wheel only. I took the carburetor apart, soaked most of the parts in a carb cleaner solution then cleaned it in water and used compressed air to make sure all the passages are clean and open. I had to make 3 carb mounting gaskets out of gasket material which worked fine. In about a half hour I'm going to re-install the carb and try and tune it in. A new carb even on ebay is $450 which I really don't want to spend as long as I can dial in the old carb. I have to check the intake and exhaust valves and reset them before I try and dial in the carburetor. Waste of time trying to dial in a carb when the valves are out of adjustment. I also have new spark plugs, again a necessity for tuning a carb. Air cleaner looks new so one more variable eliminated.

I have a Yamaha gas golf cart I customized last summer with custom paint, 6" lift, custom wheels ant large tires, hand made curved windshield, folding rear seat etc etc and I'm debating of whether to keep the Gator and sell the golf cart or vice versa. I could put a snow plow on the gator and get year round use of it. Then I could also sell my John Deere 420 tractor with shaft drive snowblower on it. Decisions, decisions. LOL. I really like tinkering on machines like Gator, golf cart and bigger John Deere garden tractors.

Phil, I'm shocked that you would even consider keeping that "ghetto fabulous" golf cart instead of the 4X4 John Deer. What the heck are you thinking over there?

I guess, since you're an old "body man", you like tooling around with the custom paint job and all... and I can understand that... But I don't understand those gigantic rims, I wouldn't have guessed that that's your style..

Seems to me that picking between the two would be a "no-brainer".. The John deere can actually do work, and you could always put a fancy paint job on it if you wanted to. Is the golf cart faster? ..or stronger motor, or something?

I had to google the John Deere to see what it is, and I think I would take that thing over a golf cart any day of the week... even for the street...

Good luck with it Phil, and I hope you don't get to plow any snow with it for a long time! ;)

Jim2
03-20-2015, 02:41 AM
So glad you got your nut loose!

Back in the day upon rebuilding motors, we used to use Marvel Mystery Oil. Not sure if it's still around or if that's what you guys are talking about.

Also glad the PB worked for you. I CANNOT stand the stuff. For the times I've use it, it stinks and takes too long to work. I use Break-Away which acts much more quickly. So it cost 1/3 more.

Bottom line, glad it turns. This means you will (should have) ICPE and it will run. You'll be cruis'n in no time!

Henry

Funny you should say that Henry... I was just looking up reviews about PB Blaster last weekend and I saw a lot of complaints about the smell.

To me, I think WD40 smells worse.

As for the "Marvel Mystery Oil", I always keep some of that around too.

In fact, aside from the "can and a half" of PB Blaster that I shot into the cylinders over these last few days... there's also about 10 ounces of "marvels" in there with it... I was just trying everything I could think of..

Today I was able to get the CB spinning. I only turned it a few times, and then I shot more PB in there for good measure... I'll get after it for real this weekend.

Jim2
03-20-2015, 03:05 AM
That's awesome man! Nothing better than getting an engine moving. Yeah now my biggest concern would be excessive smoking from stuck rings. I'm a big fan of miracle in a bottle like seafoam. I'd probably put some in the gas and oil and first trying to get everything cleaned up.

Now that it turns I might try rocking it in gear back and forth. Since that nut came loose. They'll never come loose when you need them too, but always do when you don't need them too.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy, it DOES feel good! :banman: ... :D

She's not even running yet, but just getting it to move really made my day!

"Seafoam vs. Lucas"

I have both on the shelf, and I heard great things about both.... but I never actually "fixed" anything myself with either one of them. ... I favor Lucas because they sponsor the races that I love so much, but I don't really know which one is actually better.


Now that it turns I might try rocking it in gear back and forth. Since that nut came loose. They'll never come loose when you need them too, but always do when you don't need them too.

heheheh, I hear you, but that bolt already came loose before I even mentioned it.. we tried a whole bunch of different ways to turn the motor the previous day.. when it came loose again the next day, I packed it in... It was almost dark at that point anyway.

Now I just have to find out how to torque it properly. ...Maybe I should've torqued it before getting a full revolution out of the engine, but I just couldn't wait to see it spin.. :thumb:

Jim2
03-20-2015, 03:14 AM
...I use Break-Away which acts much more quickly. So it cost 1/3 more.

Bottom line, glad it turns. This means you will (should have) ICPE and it will run. You'll be cruis'n in no time!

Henry

I had to google "Break Away" Henry.. I never saw it before... If I ever find it locally, I'll definitely give it a try! An extra few bucks ain't nothin if it works better.

And, what is ICPE ? ignition, compression, ??? , ??? ...

I remember hearing about "fuel, fire, and air" ... but I never heard ICPE before..

junk
03-20-2015, 07:41 AM
I like PB blaster except for the smell. We call it Panther-Piss. Lately I've started used Aero-Kroil. And out of the stuff I've tried Aero-Kroil is hands down the best rust penetrant I've used. And it doesn't even smell bad.

Wish i could find a deal on a Gator. I could really use one of those on my acreage.

I too like messing with small engine stuff. Big riding lawn mowers and old tractors mainly. Weed wackers, chainsaws and stuff go to the shop.

Jeremy

Henry
03-20-2015, 12:44 PM
I had to google "Break Away" Henry.. I never saw it before... If I ever find it locally, I'll definitely give it a try! An extra few bucks ain't nothin if it works better.

And, what is ICPE ? ignition, compression, ??? , ??? ...

I remember hearing about "fuel, fire, and air" ... but I never heard ICPE before..

Guys, not because I use it but because I've tried many brands over the years and Bread Away wins hands down and here it is:

http://www.cyclo.com/C10.html

Jim, ICPE is what you need for that bike or any internal combustion engine to run:

Intake - Compression - Power - Exhaust

Take your time and enjoy what you're doing. Good diversion from banging nails. I never look forward to doing what you're doing but it's a good feeling AFTER it's done. I'm very thankful I can do many things with my hands.

Henry

All Dry
03-20-2015, 11:31 PM
Roger that Phil.. I guess the rings might have to "re-seat" now?

I never saw it with my own eyes, but I've heard plenty stories about what you just described.

From what I'm told, there's probably a "haze" of rust on the cylinder walls, "but only above the pistons"... And that's why it's better to spin it backwards first.... Makes perfect sense to me.

I heard that Marvel Mystery Oil is great for re-seating rings. "Just pour a cap full into each cylinder and run it"..

But, after filling each cylinder with PB Blaster, I doubt anything is stuck anymore... PB has saved my ass quite a few times now. It's amazing what that stuff can do... Spinning the engine backwards makes no difference unless it is a single cylinder engine. Divide 360 degrees by number of cylinders and youll know your crankshaft angle in other words your pistons are not all moving backwards some are moving up regardless of direction of rotation. As far as your rings go they wont ''re seat''. After finish size boring you typically used a rigid sizing hone to remove the last couple thousandths of the bore for the ring finish. If you don't run it and make the bores worse you may be able to simply clean up the bores with a rigid sizing hone ( not a ball hone) and put in a new set of rings and be done with it for a better result.

style
03-21-2015, 01:09 AM
well if all else fails I still have a dealers license,lol..
http://www.copart.com/us/search?q=DUCATI

you can always start swapping parts or cutting them in half..

that motor could make your bike fly..

I always wanted to put one in an enduro..

Jim2
03-21-2015, 02:12 AM
well if all else fails I still have a dealers license,lol..
http://www.copart.com/us/search?q=DUCATI

you can always start swapping parts or cutting them in half..

that motor could make your bike fly..

I always wanted to put one in an enduro..

Lol Style, that ain't gonna happen! My CB is faster than a Ducati Monster anyway.. I used to ride with a friend who had one. The Duc was fast getting out of the turns, but I could always run him down in the straights.

The '94 CB has good torque down low as is. It kicks in good at 3500 rpm, and the "sweet spot" starts at about 4500. Redline is only 9500..

Ducati does make some sweet motards, but there's no way I would try to fit a Ducati motor in the CB.. I don't have those kind of skills, much less the facilities to do it..

My dream bike would be a CR500 motard... lowered, street tires, kick start and all.. Out here, it's possible to get a two-stroke street legal. We don't have the "emissions" test out here... As long as there's no visible smoke, it's good.

Jim2
03-21-2015, 02:25 AM
Spinning the engine backwards makes no difference unless it is a single cylinder engine. Divide 360 degrees by number of cylinders and youll know your crankshaft angle in other words your pistons are not all moving backwards some are moving up regardless of direction of rotation. As far as your rings go they wont ''re seat''. After finish size boring you typically used a rigid sizing hone to remove the last couple thousandths of the bore for the ring finish. If you don't run it and make the bores worse you may be able to simply clean up the bores with a rigid sizing hone ( not a ball hone) and put in a new set of rings and be done with it for a better result.

I didn't even consider that, but it makes perfect sense, thanks. I'll definitely keep that in mind..

Now that I got the engine to turn, the "complete top end job" is out of the picture. I'm just gonna get it to run for starters, and then go from there.

It would be nice to have a fresh top end, but the bike ain't worth that much in the first place. I figure I'll just ride it, and let it break itself back in. ... But I better not say too much until I actually hear her run again.. ;)

Jim2
03-21-2015, 02:41 AM
Guys, not because I use it but because I've tried many brands over the years and Bread Away wins hands down and here it is:

http://www.cyclo.com/C10.html

Jim, ICPE is what you need for that bike or any internal combustion engine to run:

Intake - Compression - Power - Exhaust

Take your time and enjoy what you're doing. Good diversion from banging nails. I never look forward to doing what you're doing but it's a good feeling AFTER it's done. I'm very thankful I can do many things with my hands.

Henry

Thanks Henry! I'm certainly gonna take my time, and I AM enjoying the process too.

Last weekend, I started the whole process by giving her a wash... and I never enjoyed washing the bike so much! :)

Since everything is opened up already, I'll check the valve clearances tomorrow. But first I'll change the oil. ...I'll add the oil via the head, and let it run down from the top... The cams and everything look real good and clean, but oiling from the top sounds like a good idea. Everything must be dry up there. I only spun it a few times so for, with a wrench on the stator bolt.

I'm getting a good feeling about this whole process. After seeing all the gunk in the jets, she might run better than ever! I just hope I don't find electrical issues when it's time to fire her up. I know it's a possibility, but I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it.. ;)

Jim2
03-21-2015, 03:03 AM
I like PB blaster except for the smell. We call it Panther-Piss. Lately I've started used Aero-Kroil. And out of the stuff I've tried Aero-Kroil is hands down the best rust penetrant I've used. And it doesn't even smell bad.

Wish i could find a deal on a Gator. I could really use one of those on my acreage.

I too like messing with small engine stuff. Big riding lawn mowers and old tractors mainly. Weed wackers, chainsaws and stuff go to the shop.

Jeremy

Cheers Jeremy, I'll keep an eye open for that Aero-Kroil too then. I never saw it in the local stores around here.

Just like the "Break Away" that Henry mentioned, I'll give it a try, and I don't care if it costs a few bucks more. If it works better, it's well worth it!

I wasn't kidding when I said I would pay $20 for a can of PB Blaster... It's well worth it when you need it, and it got me out of trouble a few times already. I can say from experience that it's way better than "Liquid Wrench" or "WD40" (but WD is better for stuck rubber) , but I never tried these other ones that you guys mentioned. If there's something better than PB, I wouldn't think twice about paying twice as much for it.

Years ago, I was googling all this stuff about penetrating lubricants, and I found stories about an ATF/acetone, 50/50, mix... There were people saying it's "still the best thing ever", so I tried it.. And in my opinion, PB Blaster eats that shit for lunch! If there's something that works better than PB Blaster, I'll be stocking up on it... But I don't see these other products at my local stores..

[edit] PS Jeremy, the smell of WD40 bothers me, and there are a few other things that get to me too, but PB ain't one of them. To me, it's just a regular stink like any other product in it's category. Maybe you guys have been over exposed to it... I can't stand the smell of "copper-sulfate" myself. I think I might be past the "lifetime maximum dose" for that shit. I'm glad it's banned now..

Jim2
03-23-2015, 01:43 AM
stuck rings??

I tried a compression test today, and got about 75psi on cylinders #1 and #3.. and zero psi on cylinder #2 and #4..

We did adjust the valves before testing it, so I guess its possible that something went wrong there.

Or it could be frozen rings? or maybe corrosion on the valve seats?

My friend Ryan had an unorthodox way of gapping the valves, but everything he said made sense. I'll trust him..

We didn't do it "by the book".. Instead, we did one at a time, with each cam lobe facing up when we gapped it.

The "By the book" method would allow adjustments at two cylinders each time the crank gets turned..

imo, the gaps are all "one or two thousandths" over.. But I still don't see how that would keep it from closing when it needs to close.

So I poured the rest of my bottle of "Marvel Mystery Oil" into the #2 and #4 cylinders, and called it a day. ..Only about one ounce in each cylinder.. gonna let it sit again..

I changed the oil and checked the spark today too. The oil was black, but she did have spark.

Phil V
03-23-2015, 11:26 AM
Jim, stuck rings in the piston grooves will never cause zero compression. It would be low compression like in the 60/70 psi range. Zero compression can be caused by only two things -- a hole in a piston or the valves are not closing all the way. You need to redo the valve lash. Pull all the spark plugs out then get a piece of straight copper wire or a small diameter wood dowel. Slowly turn the engine over using a socket on the stator/crank bolt/nut. Watch the valves as it's coming up on the compression stroke, stick the straight piece of copper wire or a dowel into that cylinders spark plug hole and you will see the copper wire/dowel moving upwards until it stops and the piston starts going down again. When the piston is at top dead center both valves should have some play in them. Check the gap and in your case the cylinders with no compression you'll find the valve(s) aren't closing all the way, so regap them to the correct gap. BOTH valves for that cylinder can be gapped before moving on to the next cylinder.

I used that method last night setting the valves on my 2 cyl John Deere Gator. (both cylinders had close to 200 psi. Specs say 180 psi minimum, which is really high compared to most older engines.)

All Dry
03-24-2015, 02:01 AM
stuck rings??

I tried a compression test today, and got about 75psi on cylinders #1 and #3.. and zero psi on cylinder #2 and #4..

We did adjust the valves before testing it, so I guess its possible that something went wrong there.

Or it could be frozen rings? or maybe corrosion on the valve seats?

My friend Ryan had an unorthodox way of gapping the valves, but everything he said made sense. I'll trust him..

We didn't do it "by the book".. Instead, we did one at a time, with each cam lobe facing up when we gapped it.

The "By the book" method would allow adjustments at two cylinders each time the crank gets turned..

imo, the gaps are all "one or two thousandths" over.. But I still don't see how that would keep it from closing when it needs to close.

So I poured the rest of my bottle of "Marvel Mystery Oil" into the #2 and #4 cylinders, and called it a day. ..Only about one ounce in each cylinder.. gonna let it sit again..

I changed the oil and checked the spark today too. The oil was black, but she did have spark. If you mean you did the valve adjustment at the top of the cam lobe lift or on the nose of the cam that would be opposite of where you want the cam to be when adjusting lash.

Jim2
03-24-2015, 03:05 AM
If you mean you did the valve adjustment at the top of the cam lobe lift or on the nose of the cam that would be opposite of where you want the cam to be when adjusting lash.

I'm not sure what you mean by "nose of the cam", but I guess you mean the lobe?

We gapped the clearance with the "lobe up" (valve closed).

And, imo, the gaps were all to large.. one or two thousandths over.. some of them are three thousandths over... I'm trying to understand how (or "if") that could keep them from closing..

to be continued...

Jim2
03-24-2015, 04:02 AM
Jim, stuck rings in the piston grooves will never cause zero compression. It would be low compression like in the 60/70 psi range. Zero compression can be caused by only two things -- a hole in a piston or the valves are not closing all the way. You need to redo the valve lash. Pull all the spark plugs out then get a piece of straight copper wire or a small diameter wood dowel. Slowly turn the engine over using a socket on the stator/crank bolt/nut. Watch the valves as it's coming up on the compression stroke, stick the straight piece of copper wire or a dowel into that cylinders spark plug hole and you will see the copper wire/dowel moving upwards until it stops and the piston starts going down again. When the piston is at top dead center both valves should have some play in them. Check the gap and in your case the cylinders with no compression you'll find the valve(s) aren't closing all the way, so regap them to the correct gap. BOTH valves for that cylinder can be gapped before moving on to the next cylinder.

I used that method last night setting the valves on my 2 cyl John Deere Gator. (both cylinders had close to 200 psi. Specs say 180 psi minimum, which is really high compared to most older engines.)

Thanks Phil, I appreciate it..

I was trying to be concise earlier, but here's the long story.

The book says to set the cams in a certain position, according to reference marks on the cam chain sprockets.

"By the book", Each cam would be somewhere "sideways" when the clearance is checked..
The lobes are not facing "up", but you can adjust two sets of valves each time the crank is turned.

But my friend Ryan didn't want to do it that way. He said it's more "sure fire" to set each cylinder individually with the cam lobe facing up "by eye". What he said made sense. And, in a way, it simplified the process.

The book method has you jumping around from #1 to #3, then #2 to #4... then the same thing again for the exhaust valves..

With Ryan's method, we just went across the head, one cylinder at a time.. The cam lobes facing up at each adjustment. Then we just went across the intake side, 1 2 3 4, and then did the exhaust side, 1 2 3 4. fwiw, it did make it easier to keep track of where we were.

Now, at this point, I have to say that Ryan does seem to know more than me about this kind of thing, so I went along with it. But, when I went back and checked them at the "factory spec position", all the clearances seemed to be about .002"-.003" bigger than they should be.

But I still can't understand how that could hold the valves open.

It seems to me that, if anything, it would't open the valve enough and it would be a slight loss of power if the gaps are too wide, but it's supposed to be safer for the engine, as opposed to having the clearances to tight.

So I'm a little baffled here. I really don't think the cams are holding the valves open, but I guess I'll go through it one more time "by the book" and see if that makes any difference... I can't imagine how it will make any difference, but I guess it's worth a try.

If it doesn't work, I guess I have two options.. "full top end job", or "part it out".. It's a tough call. I don't want to part it out because it's a rare bike. But I don't like the idea of tearing it apart in my yard either... It would be a cool learning experience, but I don't take it lightly. If it was a truck, not so bad... But with a bike, if something goes wrong at speed, it's a whole different ballgame.

I'm not sure what I'll do yet...

Jim2
03-24-2015, 04:08 AM
If it IS a collapsed ring, has anyone ever managed to free it up without tearing the whole top end off?

Jim2
03-24-2015, 04:17 AM
...When the piston is at top dead center both valves should have some play in them. Check the gap and in your case the cylinders with no compression you'll find the valve(s) aren't closing all the way, so regap them to the correct gap. BOTH valves for that cylinder can be gapped before moving on to the next cylinder.
...

Now that I read that again Phil, I'll try that before doing all the valves. But it sounds a lot like what we already did..

When the lobe is up, the valve should be closed, right? We didn't check the piston location when we set the valve clearance, but the lobe was up.

All Dry
03-24-2015, 10:00 AM
Now that I read that again Phil, I'll try that before doing all the valves. But it sounds a lot like what we already did..

When the lobe is up, the valve should be closed, right? We didn't check the piston location when we set the valve clearance, but the lobe was up. To keep it simple the main two reasons you need adequate valve lash are #1 to ensure there is enough clearance for the valve springs to fully close the valves for your compression #2 The valves are right in the heat of combustion and the only time they get to transfer their heat build up away is for the split second the valve face can touch the cylinder head valve seat. If the lash is too loose the valves would still close and compression would be unaffected ,If too tight the valves would not seat and compression would be compromised.

Phil V
03-24-2015, 10:56 AM
Jim, rings seized in a piston grooves are not going to give you zero compression. (lower compression yes, but not zero compression). So you're down to one of two things. Either those cylinders with zero compression have pistons with holes in the top of the pistons or the valves aren't closing all the way. That's your only two options (assuming the bike run when you put it away.) If the bike was new to you and you know nothing about the bike then a third choice could be a bad head gasket but in this case I think we can rule that out. But even a bad head gasket would give you some compression, low but not zero compression).

Jim, can you turn the bike over with the electric starter ? If so then you should feel suction against your hand when you cover the carburetor venturi with your hand. If there is no suction against your hand then that's a big problem. Do the same with the exhaust, put your hand over the exhaust outlet and you should feel pressure against your hand with the engine cranking over with the starter. If you don't feel pressure on you hand against the exhaust outlet then that tells you there is a problem. Keep in mind that the engine on your bike is like an air compressor with air getting sucked in and air being pushed out the exhuast. If you feel pressure on your hand at the carb inlet then that tells you the intake valves aren't closing all the way or the bike is out of time (jumped a cam chain tooth or two). The opposite applies to the exhaust outlet, if you feel suction against your hand covering the exhaust outlet then that tells you the exhaust valves aren't closing all the way or the bike's cam chain jumped a tooth or two. You can rule out pretty much the cam chain jumping a tooth or two if the bike was running decent when you put it away three years ago. (The chain isn't going to stretch just sitting there not running in storage).

This is an interesting subject for me. I still think the valves aren't closing all the way based on all the evidence so far.

All Dry
03-24-2015, 07:23 PM
I think a good moral to the story here is whenever you are going to have an engine out of service for a time, Drain the gas and run the carbs dry. Drain the coolant if it has coolant and use fogging oil in the intake. Keep the engine dry from the weather. Usually if you follow those rules the engine will light right up when you try to start it at a later date. It only takes a small amount of time to do it and makes a big difference.

Jim2
03-24-2015, 10:52 PM
I think a good moral to the story here is whenever you are going to have an engine out of service for a time, Drain the gas and run the carbs dry. Drain the coolant if it has coolant and use fogging oil in the intake. Keep the engine dry from the weather. Usually if you follow those rules the engine will light right up when you try to start it at a later date. It only takes a small amount of time to do it and makes a big difference.

Thanks Mike (I think)..

When I "put the bike away", I never expected it to sit this long. I'm ashamed of myself for letting this happen..

At the time I last rode it, I was working on the other side of the afternoon traffic around here. It ain't no fun sitting on the bike in stop and go traffic. I'd rather be in my truck for that shit. On the bike (with a full face helmet), I can't smoke, drink, or spit... And there's no radio either... The truck is just so much better for that ride.

So, after a few months went by, the CB didn't want to start, so she sat for a while..
And then a year went by....
I bought a new battery and expected her to fire right up, but no go...

And then two more years went by.. That "new battery" turned out to be dead when I tried to charge it.

So I bought a new battery again, in the hopes that doing the carbs would do the trick this time.. So much for that.. to be continued..

Jim2
03-24-2015, 11:14 PM
Jim, rings seized in a piston grooves are not going to give you zero compression. (lower compression yes, but not zero compression). So you're down to one of two things. Either those cylinders with zero compression have pistons with holes in the top of the pistons or the valves aren't closing all the way. That's your only two options (assuming the bike run when you put it away.) If the bike was new to you and you know nothing about the bike then a third choice could be a bad head gasket but in this case I think we can rule that out. But even a bad head gasket would give you some compression, low but not zero compression).

Jim, can you turn the bike over with the electric starter ? If so then you should feel suction against your hand when you cover the carburetor venturi with your hand. If there is no suction against your hand then that's a big problem. Do the same with the exhaust, put your hand over the exhaust outlet and you should feel pressure against your hand with the engine cranking over with the starter. If you don't feel pressure on you hand against the exhaust outlet then that tells you there is a problem. Keep in mind that the engine on your bike is like an air compressor with air getting sucked in and air being pushed out the exhuast. If you feel pressure on your hand at the carb inlet then that tells you the intake valves aren't closing all the way or the bike is out of time (jumped a cam chain tooth or two). The opposite applies to the exhaust outlet, if you feel suction against your hand covering the exhaust outlet then that tells you the exhaust valves aren't closing all the way or the bike's cam chain jumped a tooth or two. You can rule out pretty much the cam chain jumping a tooth or two if the bike was running decent when you put it away three years ago. (The chain isn't going to stretch just sitting there not running in storage).

This is an interesting subject for me. I still think the valves aren't closing all the way based on all the evidence so far.



rings seized in a piston grooves are not going to give you zero compression.

I've been thinking about that a lot since you said it the first time Phil..

I'm trying (hoping) to find a way to imagine that the valve adjustment is holding the valves open, but I just can't picture it. We didn't mess with the cam chain, and it certainly didn't "jump a tooth"..

If anything, the way the valves are adjusted right now, they probably won't even open the valves enough as it is... I would expect the performance to be down right now if she was running.

So that leaves "holes in the pistons" as your only other option.. that's a shitty option... But, to tell the truth, I watched Ryan tap the tops of the pistons with a socket extension when it was all seized up (in an effort to get the PB Blaster to soak in)... It was kinda terrifying, but he didn't hit them too hard.. I hope..

Do you think there could possibly be enough rust on the valve seats to keep them from closing? ...To the point of "zero psi"?

PS Phil, my friend says he Has seen a collapsed ring cause "zero compression" before. Are you sure it's impossible?

All Dry
03-25-2015, 12:35 AM
I've been thinking about that a lot since you said it the first time Phil..

I'm trying (hoping) to find a way to imagine that the valve adjustment is holding the valves open, but I just can't picture it. We didn't mess with the cam chain, and it certainly didn't "jump a tooth"..

If anything, the way the valves are adjusted right now, they probably won't even open the valves enough as it is... I would expect the performance to be down right now if she was running.

So that leaves "holes in the pistons" as your only other option.. that's a shitty option... But, to tell the truth, I watched Ryan tap the tops of the pistons with a socket extension when it was all seized up (in an effort to get the PB Blaster to soak in)... It was kinda terrifying, but he didn't hit them too hard.. I hope..

Do you think there could possibly be enough rust on the valve seats to keep them from closing? ...To the point of "zero psi"?

PS Phil, my friend says he Has seen a collapsed ring cause "zero compression" before. Are you sure it's impossible? I think you mean broken ring and yes you could have corrosion holding a valve open. Try to put some air in the sparkplug hole and listen for air in the carbs if you hear it then its your intake valve ,listen for air in the exhaust pipe means open exhaust valve. Air coming out of the crankcase oil filler means bad rings.

Phil V
03-25-2015, 01:04 AM
I think you mean broken ring and yes you could have corrosion holding a valve open. Try to put some air in the sparkplug hole and listen for air in the carbs if you hear it then its your intake valve ,listen for air in the exhaust pipe means open exhaust valve. Air coming out of the crankcase oil filler means bad rings.

Good idea with the compressed air, Mike.

Jim, at this point you have nothing to lose, pull the air box to where you have direct access to the inlets of the carbs and pull the exhaust pipes to where you have direct access to the exhaust ports. Do as Mike suggested and wrap a rag around a air blow gun and bring each cylinder up to top dead center and blow air in the spark plug hole. Bring each cylinder up to top dead center the way I told you earlier to make damn sure it IS at top dead center to where the valves should be closing all the way. It's a no brainer, if air comes out the back side of the carburetor then that cylinders intake valve isn't closing all the way. If air comes out the exhaust port then the exhaust valves isn't closing all the way. If air comes out the crank case vent hose then you have a hole in a piston. I have never seen seized rings cause zero compression. Low compression - yes. Zero compression - no.

If you lived closer to me I'd let you use my inspection camera. It has a flexible shaft with camera at the end of the shaft that will fit down inside a spark plug hole. At the other end of the flexible shaft is 4" color digital video screen. You can look down in the cylinder in real time without pulling the cylinder head.

Jim2
03-25-2015, 01:53 AM
Good idea with the compressed air, Mike.

Jim, at this point you have nothing to lose, pull the air box to where you have direct access to the inlets of the carbs and pull the exhaust pipes to where you have direct access to the exhaust ports. Do as Mike suggested and wrap a rag around a air blow gun and bring each cylinder up to top dead center and blow air in the spark plug hole. Bring each cylinder up to top dead center the way I told you earlier to make damn sure it IS at top dead center to where the valves should be closing all the way. It's a no brainer, if air comes out the back side of the carburetor then that cylinders intake valve isn't closing all the way. If air comes out the exhaust port then the exhaust valves isn't closing all the way. If air comes out the crank case vent hose then you have a hole in a piston. I have never seen seized rings cause zero compression. Low compression - yes. Zero compression - no.

If you lived closer to me I'd let you use my inspection camera. It has a flexible shaft with camera at the end of the shaft that will fit down inside a spark plug hole. At the other end of the flexible shaft is 4" color digital video screen. You can look down in the cylinder in real time without pulling the cylinder head.

Thanks again Phil, we just put an inspection camera in there. I was amazed to hear that it only cost $21 on amazon, but it requires a laptop to see the image.

... didn't see anything too scary on the valves, just a little rust at a few spots on top.

... The top of the pistons are caked with carbon, but I didn't see any holes. The bike always did run rich..

So we did the compression test again, with plenty oil in the #4 cylinder.
I think I didn't add enough oil last time I tried this test..
This time the compression shot up fast, until the oil ran off.

So that's where I'm at now. I think I might have to do the whole top end..

I don't like the idea of doing the whole top end... But it will be a cool learning experience, and it'll be nice to have a fresh engine in that baby anyway.... I do remember what a difference a new set of rings makes in a dirt bike, but on a four stroke, it's a lot more work. It's a little intimidating to be honest, but I guess I'll have to take a swing at it anyway.

The CB always had a little bit of cam chain rattle anyway. Years ago, I asked a mechanic about fixing it, and he said "It's not worth it, just keep good oil in it". But now that it needs to be done, it will only cost a few hundred in parts/machining.. and a whole lot of time..

It wouldn't be worth it to have a mechanic do it, the bike ain't worth that much... But ,if I do it myself (with help), I guess it IS worth it in the end.

I have some pics from the "endoscope", I'll post them soon.

Jim2
03-25-2015, 02:11 AM
I think you mean broken ring and yes you could have corrosion holding a valve open. Try to put some air in the sparkplug hole and listen for air in the carbs if you hear it then its your intake valve ,listen for air in the exhaust pipe means open exhaust valve. Air coming out of the crankcase oil filler means bad rings.

Thanks Mike, we shot some compressed air in there today, and I did hear it in the "oil filler hole".

I really appreciate all you guys' input on this... I'm learning a lot here!

Jim2
03-25-2015, 02:49 AM
The pics of the "endoscope" method didn't come out too good, but I thought this was a pretty cool tool.

In this pic, you can see some marks on the cylinder wall. The photo doesn't do it justice, but it was pretty cool being able to look in there like that.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1826_zpsdivprkkx.jpg


... and this is the intake valve at the #4 cylinder (viewed from the carb port).. I expected it to look worse..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1830_zpscfjho8fl.jpg

Jim2
03-25-2015, 04:57 AM
This bike always had "the dreaded cam chain rattle" since the day I got it... It's a "known issue" with these old CB's.

From what I was told, the head was done at about 40 thousand miles... It's gotta be @ at least 70 thousand miles by now...

In this vid, you can hear the cam chain banging around @ 0:25, and many other times after that too..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temx2Ynzhao

All Dry
03-26-2015, 08:27 PM
You could pop in a 10 HP Briggs and Stratton:)

Jim2
03-27-2015, 12:39 AM
You could pop in a 10 HP Briggs and Stratton:)

ugh, yer killin me man..

I might as well just build one of these, but I would use Oak..

Jim2
03-27-2015, 12:56 AM
I've decided that I'm gonna try it.. I'll do the whole friggin top end.. dammit
It'll be a "new" engine after that, and there ain't any "known issues" with the transmission, so I think it will be worth it.

It's a little daunting, but I have nothing to lose at this point.... except "my time"..

I figure I'll tear it down before buying any gaskets or anything else.

What I find inside will determine if I buy new gaskets or part it out... but I really don't want to part it out...

I do remember what a new set of rings will do for a dirt-bike... maybe the CB will scare me again "with a new top-end"... that would make it all worth it. She was good for 145 mph before... Rebuilding it might not make it faster, but if it makes her quicker, it'll be worth it!

Phil V
03-27-2015, 11:16 AM
It's a bigger pain in the ass to remove, rebuild and syn the carburetors than it is to do a top end.

And that "2X4" bike absolutely looks like a death trap. (and I like riding bikes -- but not that one).

I fired up my Harley a couple days ago after it sitting all winter in storage. I happened to be walking by it to get something else and I figured what the hell, pulled the hand choke, turn the key on, flipped the throttle a couple times to prime the carb and hit the start button. It sounded like me after a long sleep - firing on one cylinder, coughing and sputtering. Finally the second cylinder kicked in and it smoothed right out. Sounded GOOD to me. I didn't remove the battery when it put it in storage, didn't mist the cylinders with oil, didn't put a float charger on the battery and it still fired up and sounds great. Riding season is at least a month to two months away yet. But it IS coming.

Jim2
03-28-2015, 03:25 AM
It's a bigger pain in the ass to remove, rebuild and syn the carburetors than it is to do a top end.

And that "2X4" bike absolutely looks like a death trap. (and I like riding bikes -- but not that one).

I fired up my Harley a couple days ago after it sitting all winter in storage. I happened to be walking by it to get something else and I figured what the hell, pulled the hand choke, turn the key on, flipped the throttle a couple times to prime the carb and hit the start button. It sounded like me after a long sleep - firing on one cylinder, coughing and sputtering. Finally the second cylinder kicked in and it smoothed right out. Sounded GOOD to me. I didn't remove the battery when it put it in storage, didn't mist the cylinders with oil, didn't put a float charger on the battery and it still fired up and sounds great. Riding season is at least a month to two months away yet. But it IS coming.

yeah Phil, I considered putting everything back together and "run er hard" with some Marvels Mystery Oil in there... I've heard stories about fixing frozen rings like that...

But I've decided to do the whole top end... I always wanted to get rid of that cam chain rattle anyway, and new rings too... mmmm, new rings....

Phil V
03-28-2015, 10:45 AM
yeah Phil, I considered putting everything back together and "run er hard" with some Marvels Mystery Oil in there... I've heard stories about fixing frozen rings like that...

But I've decided to do the whole top end... I always wanted to get rid of that cam chain rattle anyway, and new rings too... mmmm, new rings....

Why didn't you just adjust the cam chain tension before ?

Mooch
03-28-2015, 12:48 PM
yeah Phil, I considered putting everything back together and "run er hard" with some Marvels Mystery Oil in there... I've heard stories about fixing frozen rings like that...

But I've decided to do the whole top end... I always wanted to get rid of that cam chain rattle anyway, and new rings too... mmmm, new rings....

I don't think the bike is worth the amount of work and money .But if it does have the mileage on it you say it does ..I would do the bottom end also ... sometimes it is better to walk away .

Just my opinion Jim .

Mooch

Jim2
03-28-2015, 04:06 PM
I don't think the bike is worth the amount of work and money .But if it does have the mileage on it you say it does ..I would do the bottom end also ... sometimes it is better to walk away .

Just my opinion Jim .

Mooch

You might be right Mooch. It certainly wouldn't be worth it if I had to pay a shop to do it... but if I do it myself, it's only a couple hundred worth of gaskets and rings and such... I'm gonna open it up and see what I find before ordering anything.

Jim2
03-28-2015, 04:08 PM
Why didn't you just adjust the cam chain tension before ?

It's not a simple job on this bike Phil.

Mooch
03-28-2015, 10:24 PM
It's not a simple job on this bike Phil.

Pulling the carbs off my newer model triumph is a frigging nightmare . And adjusting the valves with shims looks like a real pain also .

I have found out I just don't ride enough or even enjoy it enough anymore . So I'm thinking of getting rid of both bikes . I haven't even used my boat much this year .If that doesn't change next year it will go also .

I have found fishing from the shore and bridges to be a lot easier and less work . Not catching as much but at this stage of my life it doesn't matter . I let any good sized fish go anyway and catch all I want to eat from the shore .

I haven't fished near as much as before . I do have a real interest in filming wildlife so I might venture into that more next season .

People at the camp and my wife have been bugging me with questions .I might sell this place and my next one will have no electric power .

Mooch..sorry Jim didn't mean to take over your thread .

All Dry
03-28-2015, 10:33 PM
ugh, yer killin me man..

I might as well just build one of these, but I would use Oak.. Have to admit pretty creative and cool.

Jim2
03-28-2015, 10:37 PM
Pulling the carbs off my newer model triumph is a frigging nightmare . And adjusting the valves with shims looks like a real pain also .

I have found out I just don't ride enough or even enjoy it enough anymore . So I'm thinking of getting rid of both bikes . I haven't even used my boat much this year .If that doesn't change next year it will go also .

I have found fishing from the shore and bridges to be a lot easier and less work . Not catching as much but at this stage of my life it doesn't matter . I let any good sized fish go anyway and catch all I want to eat from the shore .

I haven't fished near as much as before . I do have a real interest in filming wildlife so I might venture into that more next season .

People at the camp and my wife have been bugging me with questions .I might sell this place and my next one will have no electric power .

Mooch..sorry Jim didn't mean to take over your thread .

No problem Mooch, I'll get it back on track with some pics later.. It's raining, so I'm taking a break.. the head is just about ready to come off.

I was never much a fisherman myself. My favorite part of fishing is the boat ride. Maybe you should sell the bikes, keep the boat, and get a really good camera with some good lenses - "zoom" and "macro".

It sounds like the rain stopped, I'll be back later..

Jim2
03-28-2015, 11:41 PM
Have to admit pretty creative and cool.

heheh, yeah, the wood bike was kinda neat, but I wonder how old the builder is.. If he was a kid, then he built the coolest "go cart" ever!

Jim2
03-28-2015, 11:56 PM
Pulling the carbs off my newer model triumph is a frigging nightmare . And adjusting the valves with shims looks like a real pain also .

I have found out I just don't ride enough or even enjoy it enough anymore . So I'm thinking of getting rid of both bikes . I haven't even used my boat much this year .If that doesn't change next year it will go also . ...

Pulling the carbs on the CB was pretty easy Mooch. They weren't stuck too bad. It was much easier than dealing with the carbs on a V-4 engine..

I've done the valve adjustments a few times now, but the CB has the "screw type" adjustment. It's tedious, but it's not "hard".

When I bought the bike, the guy said the motor was rebuilt at 45K. The cams and everything look real good up there. No nicks or scratches anywhere.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1838_zps55mct8te.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1844_zpsfssk1ks0.jpg

Jim2
03-29-2015, 12:12 AM
Why didn't you just adjust the cam chain tension before ?


I see that I forgot to mention something earlier Phil... This bike doesn't have an "adjustment".

Newer CBs have an adjustment, but mine doesn't.. This a known issue with these bikes at this mileage. And it's a bitch to get at it... it's in the heart of the engine..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1857_zpswjzha534.jpg

This pin has some wear on it, but I think it'll be alright after a good cleaning;

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1855_zpsluj48s21.jpg

Jim2
03-29-2015, 12:16 AM
the cotter pin on the left, is the other side of the worn pin..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1852_zpsrzrvglto.jpg

Jim2
03-30-2015, 12:28 AM
I got the pistons out today. The rings were indeed stuck. But, aside from that, the pistons don't look very "worn" at all. they're soaking in potion right now, I'll get better pics after they're cleaned up.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/PISTONS%20IMG_1887_zps2ogw85ml.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/PUSHRODS%20IMG_1891_zpscy23hem9.jpg

--------------------------------------------------

The cylinder walls seem like they'll hone up OK.
This pic shows the walls of #4 and #1


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/4321%20IMG_1878_zpsgzpur4rh.jpg

.................................................. ......

This pic shows the wall of #2 cylinder, it's the worst one of all. There's a lot of carbon caked up on it.. (sorry the picture didn't come out too good)

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/21%20IMG_1870_zpsinbxvnh3.jpg

Phil V
03-30-2015, 10:16 AM
Jim, I'd like to see a picture of the bottom side of the old head gasket.

If it were me doing that job I would get a good bore gauge and find out how out of round the cylinders are. If they are egg shaped you'll be fighting a losing battle unless you have the cylinders bored out (which means new oversize pistons/rings). and after the pistons are cleaned up you need to drop them back in the cylinders and use a feeler gauge to see how much of gap you have between the piston and the cylinder wall. If that bike has close to 80K miles on it the odds are you'll need to bore the cylinders and go to oversize pistons and rings.

Jim2
03-30-2015, 03:17 PM
Jim, I'd like to see a picture of the bottom side of the old head gasket.

If it were me doing that job I would get a good bore gauge and find out how out of round the cylinders are. If they are egg shaped you'll be fighting a losing battle unless you have the cylinders bored out (which means new oversize pistons/rings). and after the pistons are cleaned up you need to drop them back in the cylinders and use a feeler gauge to see how much of gap you have between the piston and the cylinder wall. If that bike has close to 80K miles on it the odds are you'll need to bore the cylinders and go to oversize pistons and rings.

Thanks Phil. I'll check all that stuff before ordering any parts. My friend has a digital caliper but he feels certain that everything will be good. The pistons don't show any signs of wear below the rings, and the cylinder walls have just a "very slight" lip at the top. You can barely feel it with your fingernail.

I was surprised to see that the service manual doesn't call for new rings. It gives some specs to check, but there are a few terms that I don't understand...

"Ring End Gap" - I don't know how to check that.. I guess I would have to compress the ring (on the piston) and measure the end?? I'm not sure how I would hold it in the compressed position..

The rings are the most expensive part on my list. $140 for the set. If I don't need to replace them, maybe I won't after all. ... All the other gaskets and o-rings will be less than $100.



I'd like to see a picture of the bottom side of the old head gasket.

What would you be looking for Phil? I'll get a better picture of it this evening.. It's stuck to the bottom of the head right now, I didn't get a close look at it yet.

Bob K
03-30-2015, 08:01 PM
Funny thing about rings, even bad ones can look good. Replace them as long as you are this far into the job. The labor part is already committed to. Have the cylinders checked and honed at a machine shop, and if they don't need to bore them and require new pistons then the least you could do is put new rings in. The rings and cylinders are the parts that wear out. That is where metal is rubbing against other metal. If it was me I would have the machine shop look at the valves, seats and guides too. Good luck, I know the job is growing but sometimes it's good to do a little more than the minimum you can get by with.

Bob K

All Dry
03-30-2015, 08:23 PM
Thanks Phil. I'll check all that stuff before ordering any parts. My friend has a digital caliper but he feels certain that everything will be good. The pistons don't show any signs of wear below the rings, and the cylinder walls have just a "very slight" lip at the top. You can barely feel it with your fingernail.

I was surprised to see that the service manual doesn't call for new rings. It gives some specs to check, but there are a few terms that I don't understand...

"Ring End Gap" - I don't know how to check that.. I guess I would have to compress the ring (on the piston) and measure the end?? I'm not sure how I would hold it in the compressed position..

The rings are the most expensive part on my list. $140 for the set. If I don't need to replace them, maybe I won't after all. ... All the other gaskets and o-rings will be less than $100.




What would you be looking for Phil? I'll get a better picture of it this evening.. It's stuck to the bottom of the head right now, I didn't get a close look at it yet. Ring end gap is simple it is with the ring installed into the cylinder not on the piston. You install the ring into the cylinder you have to push it in there squarely USING A PISTON TOP to push it then you just use a feeler gauge to measure the gap. You can also check your bores for taper by checking the ring gap at the bottom then switching the ring position to the top and check the gap. The difference is taper you can also check to see if your machinist did his job right by checking the ring gap in different positions of the cylinder. That method is called the poor mans dial bore gauge

Phil V
03-30-2015, 10:28 PM
Ring end gap is simple it is with the ring installed into the cylinder not on the piston. You install the ring into the cylinder you have to push it in there squarely USING A PISTON TOP to push it then you just use a feeler gauge to measure the gap. You can also check your bores for taper by checking the ring gap at the bottom then switching the ring position to the top and check the gap. The difference is taper you can also check to see if your machinist did his job right by checking the ring gap in different positions of the cylinder. That method is called the poor mans dial bore gauge

Good information, Mike. I have a buddy that owns/operates a motorcycle repair shop so any time I have an questions I talk to him. He has all the equipment and knows a lot more about small engines than I do. He's a good man to have as a friend.

I see Jim's dilema. MANY times in the past I have started out what was supposed to be a simple straight forward job that took on a life of it's own. It's one of those deals where " if I do this then I should do that, and if I do that then I should do this too " etc etc etc. What starts out a $100 job ends up costing $1,000. Working on engines absolutely fits in that category.

All Dry
03-31-2015, 02:23 AM
Good information, Mike. I have a buddy that owns/operates a motorcycle repair shop so any time I have an questions I talk to him. He has all the equipment and knows a lot more about small engines than I do. He's a good man to have as a friend.

I see Jim's dilema. MANY times in the past I have started out what was supposed to be a simple straight forward job that took on a life of it's own. It's one of those deals where " if I do this then I should do that, and if I do that then I should do this too " etc etc etc. What starts out a $100 job ends up costing $1,000. Working on engines absolutely fits in that category. It can certainly be a can of worms, But in this case I think Jim wants to try to restore the compression on that engine to specs and stop there and take a calculated gamble that the rod and main bearings still have some useful service life. Yes if you want to take it a step further with the bottom end then you would start with a micrometer on the crankshaft rod and main journals.

Jim2
03-31-2015, 02:39 AM
Ring end gap is simple it is with the ring installed into the cylinder not on the piston. You install the ring into the cylinder you have to push it in there squarely USING A PISTON TOP to push it then you just use a feeler gauge to measure the gap. You can also check your bores for taper by checking the ring gap at the bottom then switching the ring position to the top and check the gap. The difference is taper you can also check to see if your machinist did his job right by checking the ring gap in different positions of the cylinder. That method is called the poor mans dial bore gauge

AHAAA!!! Many thanks Mike, now it all makes perfect sense! :D

The service manual is kinda vague sometimes... It tells me what to do and what to test, but it assumes that I already know how to do the procedure.

... and now I know how to check the cylinder taper too. This is great, I really appreciate that tip man. I love learning this stuff.. who needs college! :proposeto

Jim2
03-31-2015, 02:54 AM
Funny thing about rings, even bad ones can look good. Replace them as long as you are this far into the job. The labor part is already committed to. Have the cylinders checked and honed at a machine shop, and if they don't need to bore them and require new pistons then the least you could do is put new rings in. The rings and cylinders are the parts that wear out. That is where metal is rubbing against other metal. If it was me I would have the machine shop look at the valves, seats and guides too. Good luck, I know the job is growing but sometimes it's good to do a little more than the minimum you can get by with.

Bob K

Thanks Bob, I always thought that replacing the rings was just a "matter of course" once you get this far into an engine. It's "Silly not to", and all that..

But my friend seems to think they'll be fine... He was trying to talk me into re-using almost everything. I was against that at first, but he says it just needs a head gasket and a few o-rings... when I saw that the service manual says the rings are re-useable, I started to believe him ;)

The bike ain't worth all that much, so I can't put too much money into it... but I don't want to part it out either. It's a rare bike. I just want to get it fixed and ride it for a while. It's all about the journey at this point. I'm learning a lot with this operation, and that's something I'll have longer than the bike...

But I still might put new rings on it "as a matter of course" ;)

Jim2
03-31-2015, 03:09 AM
Good information, Mike. I have a buddy that owns/operates a motorcycle repair shop so any time I have an questions I talk to him. He has all the equipment and knows a lot more about small engines than I do. He's a good man to have as a friend.

I see Jim's dilema. MANY times in the past I have started out what was supposed to be a simple straight forward job that took on a life of it's own. It's one of those deals where " if I do this then I should do that, and if I do that then I should do this too " etc etc etc. What starts out a $100 job ends up costing $1,000. Working on engines absolutely fits in that category.

Yeah Phil, that's what I'm talkin about. I can't spend $1000 to get this bike working. If it comes to that, I'm better off parting it out. There are some expensive parts on this bike. "hard to find"..

I love the bike, but only because I'm sentimental about it now. It's not faster or better than anything else, but it's fast enough, and rare enough, so I like it.

If I put $1000 into the engine, I would still need a few other things done before I could get 2K for it.

Fixing it "to sell it" is off the table. If this works out, and I get her running, I'm gonna ride her for years before selling... just so I can test my work.. It's all about the lesson at this point. This is all very interesting to me.

Jim2
03-31-2015, 11:43 PM
After soaking the pistons in a gallon of carb cleaner for a couple days, most of the rings were still stuck in their grooves.

We managed to get them out, but they're all corroded.. and some got bent... I'll need a new set...

This is the set from the #3 cylinder. It was the cylinder that had the best compression (78psi) [)

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1899_zpsvkbm3h3b.jpg


The one on the right was the top ring. All that staining feels rough to the touch..

Jim2
03-31-2015, 11:55 PM
Jim, I'd like to see a picture of the bottom side of the old head gasket.


Here it is Phil. Do you see anything there?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1901_zpsia0jfcxk.jpg

...This pic shows the top of the head gasket...

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1905_zpsk1xr3diq.jpg

This is #4 piston.. I guess there is a little wear after all, but I'm hoping it'll be alright. I didn't borrow the digital caliper yet....

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1898_zpstloc7zyh.jpg

Jim2
04-01-2015, 12:16 AM
..........

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1914_zps5ckbwlaj.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1912_zpsyjc2natu.jpg

All Dry
04-01-2015, 01:31 AM
Here it is Phil. Do you see anything there?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1901_zpsia0jfcxk.jpg

...This pic shows the top of the head gasket...

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1905_zpsk1xr3diq.jpg

This is #4 piston.. I guess there is a little wear after all, but I'm hoping it'll be alright. I didn't borrow the digital caliper yet....

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1898_zpstloc7zyh.jpg scuffing on the piston skirt like that is often times caused by ''pinging'' pre detonation advanaced ignition timing or running your engine to hot what happens when you hear that ping or rattle its one side of the piston being slammed down/ rotating on the wristpin IOW as the piston is coming up one side is being forced down and the opposite side of the piston skirt hits the cylinder wall that's why letting your engine ping is no joke it does real damage. Your piston should NEVER touch the cylinder wall the rings are the only thing that contact the bore during the slide up and down the bore. So now that your rings are in that kind of shape you need to carefully clean and inspect the piston ring grooves . Ring side clearance is critical also in the grooves so DONT remove or deform the piston ring grooves when cleaning them. just snap off and old compression ring and use it for a cleaner tool.

All Dry
04-01-2015, 01:35 AM
Another thing I would do as a quick check if you have access to a handheld vacuum pump see if your valves will hold vacuum now. Another thing you can do is turn the cylinder head upside down put the plugs in and pour some solvent into the valve dish and see if it leaks out if your valve seats and valves are sealing correctly the solvent should not leak out.

Phil V
04-01-2015, 11:25 AM
Jim, there seemed to be a lot of buildup on the bottom side of the head gasket and the top of "jugs". It actually looks good to me. If a head gasket is going to go they usually burn out at space between the cylinder next to it. But that looks good on your engine. That scuffing on the side of the #4 piston isn't ideal but you can clean it up with fine sandpaper. What would worry me more is the top of that same piston looks burned around the edge up to and past the first compression ring. I would absolutely replace that piston and any other other that are burned like that (by burned I mean part of the piston top side edge is burned away and will get worse rapidly is put back in service.

You need to hand lap the valves, which is something you could do easily. EVERY time I take any engine down as far as you have yours I hand lap the valves. You'll need a lapping stick and valve grinding compound (should be less than $10 total) and you should be able to borrow a valve spring compressor from someone. Each time you remove one of the valves clean it up on a bench grinder type wire brush. If there is grooves in the surface that contacts the valve seat then the valve has to be professionally ground and in most cases the valve seats will need to be professionally touched up. And then you STILL should hand lap all those valves. If it's just hand lapping then I would do one valve at a time to make sure they go back in the same hole they came out of. OR punch a bunch of holes in a piece of cardboard and insert the valve stems in the same sequence they would go back in the head.

Jim2
04-01-2015, 10:23 PM
scuffing on the piston skirt like that is often times caused by ''pinging'' pre detonation advanaced ignition timing or running your engine to hot what happens when you hear that ping or rattle its one side of the piston being slammed down/ rotating on the wristpin IOW as the piston is coming up one side is being forced down and the opposite side of the piston skirt hits the cylinder wall that's why letting your engine ping is no joke it does real damage. Your piston should NEVER touch the cylinder wall the rings are the only thing that contact the bore during the slide up and down the bore. So now that your rings are in that kind of shape you need to carefully clean and inspect the piston ring grooves . Ring side clearance is critical also in the grooves so DONT remove or deform the piston ring grooves when cleaning them. just snap off and old compression ring and use it for a cleaner tool.

Thanks again Mike.

I don't think the timing is adjustable on this bike. It has a "CDI"..

As for running hot, I don't ever remember overheating it, but.. I wrecked the dash and tach at one point and it was so ugly I took the whole dash off... So I didn't have the temp light either... But I still don't think it ever overheated. I do take pinging very seriously, and if it ever got so hot that it would ping, I would pull over.

So, I'm not sure if that rules out those two conditions but, what about these possibities..?
-I DID take it to the rev limiter two or three times (to the point where she was cutting out)... (not on purpose)
-or could the slack in the cam chain could cause it?
-or maybe, after being stuck for so long, and then getting it to spin, some of the carbon caused it?

Jim2
04-01-2015, 10:27 PM
Jim, there seemed to be a lot of buildup on the bottom side of the head gasket and the top of "jugs". It actually looks good to me. If a head gasket is going to go they usually burn out at space between the cylinder next to it. But that looks good on your engine. That scuffing on the side of the #4 piston isn't ideal but you can clean it up with fine sandpaper. What would worry me more is the top of that same piston looks burned around the edge up to and past the first compression ring. I would absolutely replace that piston and any other other that are burned like that (by burned I mean part of the piston top side edge is burned away and will get worse rapidly is put back in service.

You need to hand lap the valves, which is something you could do easily. EVERY time I take any engine down as far as you have yours I hand lap the valves. You'll need a lapping stick and valve grinding compound (should be less than $10 total) and you should be able to borrow a valve spring compressor from someone. Each time you remove one of the valves clean it up on a bench grinder type wire brush. If there is grooves in the surface that contacts the valve seat then the valve has to be professionally ground and in most cases the valve seats will need to be professionally touched up. And then you STILL should hand lap all those valves. If it's just hand lapping then I would do one valve at a time to make sure they go back in the same hole they came out of. OR punch a bunch of holes in a piece of cardboard and insert the valve stems in the same sequence they would go back in the head.

Thanks again Phil.

I never lapped valves before, but everyone says it ain't no fun. I saw a couple vids about doing it with a drill instead of by hand.

I saw one comment (on youtube) about cutting the lapping stick in half, inserting a screw, cut off the screw head, and grab the tool with a drill.. What do you guys think about that?

Jim2
04-02-2015, 02:47 AM
#2 is the other cylinder that had zero compression. I think the big stain is where it was stuck to the cylinder..??

Cylinder #2 is the worst one of all... I hope it will hone up good, but my guess is that there will always be a stain left.


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1923_zpsp8yzz2ki.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1917_zps0iicqshp.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1925_zpswnlkgcjs.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1921_zpshs7k3dbs.jpg

Jim2
04-02-2015, 02:55 AM
#1 and #3 cleaned up pretty good..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1937_zps84upocv0.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1934_zpsiozjzn1v.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1930_zpstdj9f0tv.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1929_zpsdwynmspq.jpg

Jim2
04-02-2015, 03:32 AM
I still can't get the top ring out of that #4 piston..

it's a tedious operation, and "that buggah's all hamma-jang" as they say around here. Basically, it's stuck..

The ring end is right under that "burnt" spot. .. and it's closed up tight to boot.

I got the other side moving in and out, but the ends are still stuck...
It soaked in that carb cleaner for two days, and then I tried PB Blaster for a while, but the ends don't want to let go.

Phil, you said I should just replace that piston anyway....Honda pistons are about $65 each for this bike, and I can't see replacing "just one". I guess I still have a lot to inspect before deciding if I'll buy anything more than a head gasket at this point..

If enough other things measure out to the specs, maybe I'll go all the way.. otherwise, I'll just get er running as best I can with what I got.

Phil V
04-02-2015, 10:49 AM
absolutely no drill for lapping the valves. I use the double ended lapping stick with the two suction cups and it's not a difficult or tedious job at all.

Put some valve grinding compound on the face of the valve. Wet the suction cup on the lapping stick (with water or spit) and attach the valve to the suction cup. Insert the valve stem until the valve face and the valve seat touch. Grab the lapping stick in your hands and rotate it back and for like you were trying to light a fire by hand with a wood dowl. Work it back and forth several times (say 4 or 5 times) then lift the valve up a half inch or so and rotate it 90 degrees and drop lower the valve down again to the valve seat and repeat the back and forth motion. Keep repeating the two sequences for a couple minutes then lift the valve out of the valve guide, clean the compound off the valve face and visually check that the valve face has a dull sheen to it (which would mean the valve is seating all the way around. Do the same with the valve seat to make sure it has a dull sheen all the way around the valve seat. If there are any shiny areas that means the valve will not seat properly and that cylinder will have lower compression than it should.

Lapping valves is a no brainer and is compulsory for ANY engine freshen up. (and those valves looked really grungy with close to 40,000 miles on them or the full 80,000 miles if the last "freshen up" didn't including valve lapping or valve grinding).

As far as that bad piston -- That piston will fail in a relatively short amount of time and it will seize to the
cylinder wall from normal cylinder detonation. There is nothing wrong with changing one piston if the other 3 are still good. You're not really going to reuse used piston rings on those pistons, are you ?

Shit, Jim. You're not talking about a Murray riding lawn mower here. That's a high performance motorcycle that can hit 10,000 rpm or higher.

Bob K
04-02-2015, 11:53 AM
I totally agree with Phil. One new piston, all new rings, lap the valves by hand and skimp on other stuff if you want to. Using a power drill where it isn't needed can get you in trouble. If simple hand lap doesn't clean up the valve seats then take the head to a machine shop and have them put it to spec. There seems to be a lot of burned oil on the valves. Maybe worn guides. The machine shop will check that at the same time. I would have them check and service the cylinders at that time also.

Bob K

Jim2
04-02-2015, 08:04 PM
I totally agree with Phil. One new piston, all new rings, lap the valves by hand and skimp on other stuff if you want to. Using a power drill where it isn't needed can get you in trouble. If simple hand lap doesn't clean up the valve seats then take the head to a machine shop and have them put it to spec. There seems to be a lot of burned oil on the valves. Maybe worn guides. The machine shop will check that at the same time. I would have them check and service the cylinders at that time also.

Bob K

Ok then, no drill for lapping the valves... My friend Ryan said the same thing - "absolutely not".

When I was looking at vids, I came across this one that was pretty interesting. The guy has some kind of antique tool, but it's pretty cool. Seems like a charming fella too, I wouldn't mind having him for a neighbor.. I leaned a bit from his vid, he explains it well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov83xnTgaOY#t=17

But I'm not that far yet.. I'm still just checking the pistons.. the "out of round" doesn't look correct, but I'm gonna double check. I'll know more later..

Jim2
04-02-2015, 08:15 PM
absolutely no drill for lapping the valves. I use the double ended lapping stick with the two suction cups and it's not a difficult or tedious job at all.

Put some valve grinding compound on the face of the valve. Wet the suction cup on the lapping stick (with water or spit) and attach the valve to the suction cup. Insert the valve stem until the valve face and the valve seat touch. Grab the lapping stick in your hands and rotate it back and for like you were trying to light a fire by hand with a wood dowl. Work it back and forth several times (say 4 or 5 times) then lift the valve up a half inch or so and rotate it 90 degrees and drop lower the valve down again to the valve seat and repeat the back and forth motion. Keep repeating the two sequences for a couple minutes then lift the valve out of the valve guide, clean the compound off the valve face and visually check that the valve face has a dull sheen to it (which would mean the valve is seating all the way around. Do the same with the valve seat to make sure it has a dull sheen all the way around the valve seat. If there are any shiny areas that means the valve will not seat properly and that cylinder will have lower compression than it should.

Lapping valves is a no brainer and is compulsory for ANY engine freshen up. (and those valves looked really grungy with close to 40,000 miles on them or the full 80,000 miles if the last "freshen up" didn't including valve lapping or valve grinding).

As far as that bad piston -- That piston will fail in a relatively short amount of time and it will seize to the
cylinder wall from normal cylinder detonation. There is nothing wrong with changing one piston if the other 3 are still good. You're not really going to reuse used piston rings on those pistons, are you ?

Shit, Jim. You're not talking about a Murray riding lawn mower here. That's a high performance motorcycle that can hit 10,000 rpm or higher.

Nah Phil, I was just being optimistic about re-using the rings earlier.

My first thought was to replace them, but then the book said it's not "mandatory", so I thought I would check the tolerances.. But, after getting them out of the grooves and seeing the corrosion on them, I changed my mind. I didn't even check the tolerance but, even if they measured up, I still wouldn't even consider re-using them.


I'm just taking a break from checking the tolerances on the other pistons, and the "out of round" doesn't meet the spec on any of them. I'm gonna double check it, I'll be back later..

Thanks again to all you guys! I appreciate all the lessons! :)

All Dry
04-02-2015, 11:34 PM
Nah Phil, I was just being optimistic about re-using the rings earlier.

My first thought was to replace them, but then the book said it's not "mandatory", so I thought I would check the tolerances.. But, after getting them out of the grooves and seeing the corrosion on them, I changed my mind. I didn't even check the tolerance but, even if they measured up, I still wouldn't even consider re-using them.


I'm just taking a break from checking the tolerances on the other pistons, and the "out of round" doesn't meet the spec on any of them. I'm gonna double check it, I'll be back later..

Thanks again to all you guys! I appreciate all the lessons! :) make sure you are measuring your pistons in the right place Pistons can have an elliptical shape that allows for them to become more "round" as the engine heats up. if you think about it if your pistons were perfectly round when the engine heated up they would be to big .Also back to the timing thing lots of other things can cause pinging other than timing one thing to check is too make sure your carbs are not to lean a lean mixture makes your engine hotter and your fuel charge ignites faster before top dead center which is bad. The best performance is keeping the fuel charge igniting right on that thin razors edge of top dead center.

Jim2
04-03-2015, 12:21 AM
make sure you are measuring your pistons in the right place Pistons can have an elliptical shape that allows for them to become more "round" as the engine heats up. if you think about it if your pistons were perfectly round when the engine heated up they would be to big .....

hmmm, that's very interesting ... because all of the pistons seem to be "out of round".

All of the O.D's an I.D's were within the "service limit", but the "out of round" looks like it's way off.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1967_zpsnsd5v0yx.jpg

I hope I didn't faq them all up when I put them in the vice to get the rings off... I didn't tighten the vice much at all, just enough to hold it while "tapping" the rings.... but this is the side that is always smaller...

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1956_zpsgqoyfqbc.jpg

Jim2
04-03-2015, 12:27 AM
...Now that I look agian, I'm pretty sure I didn't hurt them with the vice. The numbers are too consistent..

Mooch
04-03-2015, 12:34 AM
I got that valve lapper tool in my daddy's old engine rebuilding tool box . His had a suction cup on the end of it just like the hand ones do . I haven't rebuilt any engine in a long time .

But before I would put any money in any motor I would have the block checked for cracks that you just don't see with the naked eye . I don't remember the term but something like magna flux rings a bell .

Now I have to be honest Jim and to me you are just throwing good money and time away on that bike .

Mooch

Jim2
04-03-2015, 12:40 AM
The manual says that the "service limit for out of round" is 0.05 mm...

All four of mine showed 0.31 - 0.36 mm "out of round"

"top arrow"

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1968_zpskzufvx3d.jpg

Jim2
04-03-2015, 12:54 AM
I got that valve lapper tool in my daddy's old engine rebuilding tool box . His had a suction cup on the end of it just like the hand ones do . I haven't rebuilt any engine in a long time .

But before I would put any money in any motor I would have the block checked for cracks that you just don't see with the naked eye . I don't remember the term but something like magna flux rings a bell .

Now I have to be honest Jim and to me you are just throwing good money and time away on that bike .

Mooch


Thanks Mooch, I always appreciate an honest opinion - even if it's bad news ;)

My spare time is free, so I ain't losing nothin there... and I like learning about this stuff anyway, so I can't lose there..

At this point, it's all about how much I'll spend on parts and machining. That's the choice I have to make..

Jim2
04-03-2015, 01:15 AM
...But before I would put any money in any motor I would have the block checked for cracks that you just don't see with the naked eye . I don't remember the term but something like magna flux rings a bell . ...

Mooch
yeah Mooch... iirc, "magna flux" is what it's called. I learned about that stuff when I got the race truck. Both heads were cracked when I got it, and the guy at the local machine shop showed me how the process works. It's pretty cool how that works...

But the CB ran fine before.. And I "un-torqued" the head slowly, so I think it's gonna be ok...

From what I found today, I'm not sure how much money I'll put into it...

Jim2
04-03-2015, 01:28 AM
I started cleaning the head today too.

This was the start;

#1 and #2..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1972_zpsvbbjd1oj.jpg


#3 and #4

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1973_zpso0jjsywy.jpg


---------------------------

after a half hour with some PB Blaster, a small nylon brush, a screwdriver, and a razor blade, this is where the head is at now..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1975_zps7enilln1.jpg

Jim2
04-03-2015, 01:33 AM
heheheheh... I don't care what anyone says about the smell of PB Blaster.. To me, it smells like Victory!

...Just like the smell of two stroke exhaust smells like fun..

and I like the smell of burning rubber too :D

Henry
04-03-2015, 02:16 AM
heheheheh... I don't care what anyone says about the smell of PB Blaster.. To me, it smells like Victory!

...Just like the smell of two stroke exhaust smells like fun..

and I like the smell of burning rubber too :D

Jim, each day you bring more progress. That's a good thing.

Mooch may have a point, spending time on this thing, but it beats making snowballs! I've resurrected many things that others would have trashed. Good feeling when you get done. And, if it works, you get to ride something and/or can sell it. Keep going!

Henry

All Dry
04-03-2015, 02:45 AM
hmmm, that's very interesting ... because all of the pistons seem to be "out of round".

All of the O.D's an I.D's were within the "service limit", but the "out of round" looks like it's way off.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1967_zpsnsd5v0yx.jpg

I hope I didn't faq them all up when I put them in the vice to get the rings off... I didn't tighten the vice much at all, just enough to hold it while "tapping" the rings.... but this is the side that is always smaller...

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1956_zpsgqoyfqbc.jpg To be pertfectly honest unless you have a good micrometer set with standards you are not going to get any measurments that are going to be helpful in the thousandth or ten thousands range a handheld caliper is just going to be way off and will only waste your time and mislead you . Get your new rings make sure the valves seal and give it a shot I cant believe your pistons are going to be out of limits Im assuming the piston pins are full floating it looks like you got them apart no problem. Clean it up put it back together it will run.

Jim2
04-03-2015, 03:31 AM
To be pertfectly honest unless you have a good micrometer set with standards you are not going to get any measurments that are going to be helpful in the thousandth or ten thousands range a handheld caliper is just going to be way off and will only waste your time and mislead you . Get your new rings make sure the valves seal and give it a shot I cant believe your pistons are going to be out of limits Im assuming the piston pins are full floating it looks like you got them apart no problem. Clean it up put it back together it will run.

That's what Im tallkin' about Mike! :D

There's no doubt in my mind that she'll run.... I'm just trying to decide how far I want to go with the machining and new parts..

I'm not building a motoGP bike here, so, my only concern is that the engine won't "grenade" when I wind it up.

If I don't get "maximum" compression, that'll be OK.. as long as it's "good"...

The "grenade" factor is all I care about at this point. I don't want to ride a grenade...

But I'm pretty sure about those numbers I got. I triple checked them, and then I checked the caliper against a new set of feeler gages that I bought recently... The caliper was off by .001" each time... it was consistent every time.

The caliper and the feeler gages were both made in China... One of them must be wrong... but .001" is such a minuscule amount.

What you said about how the piston changes with heat made perfect sense. Thanks for that lesson! I fully understand how that works now, and I can see why the "parallel to pin" measurement is smaller. That's good stuff, I really appreciate it! :thumb:

Jim2
04-03-2015, 03:47 AM
Jim, each day you bring more progress. That's a good thing.

Mooch may have a point, spending time on this thing, but it beats making snowballs! I've resurrected many things that others would have trashed. Good feeling when you get done. And, if it works, you get to ride something and/or can sell it. Keep going!

Henry

heheheheheheheheh, to tell you the truth Henry, I'd rather be in a snowball fight... I like snowball fights! ;)

But I already know all there is to know about snowball fights... heheheheh, good times!!! I got some good "snowball fight" stories....

This here is a little more tedious, and it ain't always "fun", but I do like learning about this stuff... :thumb:

Jim2
04-03-2015, 04:06 AM
... Im assuming the piston pins are full floating...
I don't know what that means Mike... ??

Bob K
04-03-2015, 08:58 AM
On my Chevrolet 5.3L I had to heat the rod up to something like 400 degrees and place it in the piston then let the pin slide in. When it cooled of the pin was locked to the rod. Not free floating. Has to be pressed out.

Bob K

bmarler
04-03-2015, 11:02 AM
i think you were looking at cylinder out of round, not piston. and as others have said you can't check the pistons with calipers and get good information. round things should always be checked with micrometers. bores can be checked with snap gauges.
(not trying to butt in, just following the thread with interest.)

Phil V
04-03-2015, 12:00 PM
i think you were looking at cylinder out of round, not piston. and as others have said you can't check the pistons with calipers and get good information. round things should always be checked with micrometers. bores can be checked with snap gauges.
(not trying to butt in, just following the thread with interest.)

bmarler, not at all butting in. Any information you can add is welcome to all of us.

Phil V
04-03-2015, 12:13 PM
Jim, I agree with Mike. And I agree with you. You're not building an Indy car engine. At this point if I were you in your situation I would replace #4 piston and rings for all four pistons, lap the valves and call it good. That should give you a good running engine that won't grenade on you.

Also if i were you (which I'm obviously not) I would drop the pistons back in the holes they come out of (totally loose/not connected to anything) and use feeler gauges to see how much side play you have between the piston and the cylinder wall. If it's not crazy loose I would call it good. Check the piston side play at several different points per cylinder (gap will be wider in some areas than others). While you have the whole thing apart put a ball hone in an air or electric drill and cross hatch the cylinder walls. Your engine will thank you for it. (lubricates better and runs cooler, less chance of scoring a piston skirt).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeKlztYcKJM

Jim2
04-04-2015, 02:36 AM
On my Chevrolet 5.3L I had to heat the rod up to something like 400 degrees and place it in the piston then let the pin slide in. When it cooled of the pin was locked to the rod. Not free floating. Has to be pressed out.

Bob K

ahhh, thanks Bob, I get it now.

The pins on the CB are just held in with little circlips... it makes it easy to remove the pistons without having to remove the push rods too.

Jim2
04-04-2015, 02:50 AM
i think you were looking at cylinder out of round, not piston. and as others have said you can't check the pistons with calipers and get good information. round things should always be checked with micrometers. bores can be checked with snap gauges.
(not trying to butt in, just following the thread with interest.)

no problem, you're not butting in at all..Thanks for the comment!

The caliper that I borrowed is just big enough to reach the sides of the piston, and it reads to .001". It's digital, so it's easy to use too... I checked it against a new set of feeler gages, and the number was off by .001" each time. I forget which one was bigger/smaller, but one of them is off by that much. The number was consistent, no matter which feeler I measured.

I know I won't be able to measure the cylinder I.D. with it, but I'll check the "ring end gap" later to get an idea what's going on in there after a honing. "All Dry" described the test earlier in this thread... cheers..

Jim2
04-04-2015, 03:18 AM
Jim, I agree with Mike. And I agree with you. You're not building an Indy car engine. At this point if I were you in your situation I would replace #4 piston and rings for all four pistons, lap the valves and call it good. That should give you a good running engine that won't grenade on you.

Also if i were you (which I'm obviously not) I would drop the pistons back in the holes they come out of (totally loose/not connected to anything) and use feeler gauges to see how much side play you have between the piston and the cylinder wall. If it's not crazy loose I would call it good. Check the piston side play at several different points per cylinder (gap will be wider in some areas than others). While you have the whole thing apart put a ball hone in an air or electric drill and cross hatch the cylinder walls. Your engine will thank you for it. (lubricates better and runs cooler, less chance of scoring a piston skirt).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeKlztYcKJM

Thanks for the vid Phil.. it's funny, my friend just said the same thing... "just clean it up a little bit with scotch-brite".

For lapping the valves, I still might not even do all of them. I'm planning to do the "solvent test" tomorrow and, if most of them are good, I'll only lap the valves that need it. ... I still have to learn a little more about the solvent test though.. One guy said to use acetone, but I dunno yet.. that sounds like it might be hard on the seals.. I'm thinking seafoam or some kind of thin oil would be better, but what do I know? I do have a half gallon of lacquer thinner, what do you think?

I'm still trying to picture how I would check the "piston to cylinder gap" with feeler gages. I can't see how to do that unless I had feeler gages that are made out of wire.. am I missing something here? ... I plan to do the test with the "ring end gap" at various locations, like Mike mentioned earlier. I expect it to be a little loose, but I'm hoping it will be within the "service limit" at least.

Bob K
04-04-2015, 11:03 AM
When you measure the cylinders that way be sure to remember that you are measuring circumference and not diameter. So if the gap is .012 larger than it should be then the diameter is only .0038 larger than it should be. Hope they come out within spec.

Bob K

All Dry
04-04-2015, 12:02 PM
ahhh, thanks Bob, I get it now.

The pins on the CB are just held in with little circlips... it makes it easy to remove the pistons without having to remove the push rods too. Yep Bobs explanation is right, BTW full floating pins are usually found on higher performance engines. Your lucky you have full floating because it can be really tricky to get the pins centered correctly on the ends of pistons that you have to heat the rod to install the pin. You only get one shot and then the rod cools and locks it then you have to start all over again. Very difficult without the heating units tools and pin stop jig.

Phil V
04-04-2015, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the vid Phil.. it's funny, my friend just said the same thing... "just clean it up a little bit with scotch-brite".

For lapping the valves, I still might not even do all of them. I'm planning to do the "solvent test" tomorrow and, if most of them are good, I'll only lap the valves that need it. ... I still have to learn a little more about the solvent test though.. One guy said to use acetone, but I dunno yet.. that sounds like it might be hard on the seals.. I'm thinking seafoam or some kind of thin oil would be better, but what do I know? I do have a half gallon of lacquer thinner, what do you think?

I'm still trying to picture how I would check the "piston to cylinder gap" with feeler gages. I can't see how to do that unless I had feeler gages that are made out of wire.. am I missing something here? ... I plan to do the test with the "ring end gap" at various locations, like Mike mentioned earlier. I expect it to be a little loose, but I'm hoping it will be within the "service limit" at least.

You really should use a ball hone to cross hatch the cylinder walls. You can't get the same effect with a scotch brite pad. I would use lacquer thinner of just plain gasoline to the valve leak test. It only takes about 3 seconds to see if the valves are leaking which isn't long enough to do any damage to the valve seals. (you should be replacing all the valve seals anyway with that many miles on them). ALL the valves should be lapped. Don't take this wrong but there is a thin line between saying "good enough" and half assing the thing.

All Dry
04-04-2015, 12:22 PM
I agree the valve seals should not cost too much and new ones will help keep oil being drawn through your presumably worn guides by the engine vacuum. Not familiar with the engine but what would new valve springs cost? Just looking at some low cost and easy upgrades while its apart. BTW The cross hatch pattern you hone your cylinder to The only purpose of that is to retain oil for the rings. without it your rings will be toast in short order. Contrary to intuition you do not want a polished mirror like cylinder bore. Crank journal yes cylinder no.

Jim2
04-04-2015, 05:25 PM
I agree the valve seals should not cost too much and new ones will help keep oil being drawn through your presumably worn guides by the engine vacuum. Not familiar with the engine but what would new valve springs cost? Just looking at some low cost and easy upgrades while its apart. BTW The cross hatch pattern you hone your cylinder to The only purpose of that is to retain oil for the rings. without it your rings will be toast in short order. Contrary to intuition you do not want a polished mirror like cylinder bore. Crank journal yes cylinder no.

Thanks again Mike.

A new set of valve springs is about $190..

A new set of stem seals is another $110.. The service manual says to replace the stem seals if I take the valves apart.

Jim2
04-04-2015, 05:30 PM
You really should use a ball hone to cross hatch the cylinder walls. You can't get the same effect with a scotch brite pad. I would use lacquer thinner of just plain gasoline to the valve leak test. It only takes about 3 seconds to see if the valves are leaking which isn't long enough to do any damage to the valve seals. (you should be replacing all the valve seals anyway with that many miles on them). ALL the valves should be lapped. Don't take this wrong but there is a thin line between saying "good enough" and half assing the thing.

Thanks Phil. My friend has a hone that I can borrow. I'm not sure if it's a "ball hone" or not, but we'll get a nice cross-hatch on the cylinder walls...

I wasn't talking about using scotch brite on the cylinders. That's only for the pistons (as shown in the vid you posted).

I like the idea of using gas for the solvent test. I have some old gas on hand..

Jim2
04-04-2015, 05:52 PM
When you measure the cylinders that way be sure to remember that you are measuring circumference and not diameter. So if the gap is .012 larger than it should be then the diameter is only .0038 larger than it should be. Hope they come out within spec.

Bob K

Roger that Bob. Now I just have to remember how to do the math ;)

Bob K
04-04-2015, 06:03 PM
When I put the new piston in my Chevy, the shop manual specified a ball hone and not the kind with the four flat stones. I had to drive 20 miles to another town to find a rental store that had one. They are not common but needed.

Bob K

Jim2
04-04-2015, 08:42 PM
When I put the new piston in my Chevy, the shop manual specified a ball hone and not the kind with the four flat stones. I had to drive 20 miles to another town to find a rental store that had one. They are not common but needed.

Bob K

Thanks Bob, that's interesting.

I had to google "ball hone" to see what it does, and I got the picture now. It seems like the ball hone will follow any irregularities better than a "3 stone" hone.

My friend has the "3 stones" type... but the the top of my #2 cylinder has a lot of build up, so maybe it'll be better for that part "at least". It looks like carbon built up on there, not sure yet, I'll get some better pictures later..

I read some comments about one vs the other, and a lot of people say to throw the "3 stone" hone away... but then one guy described the difference between the two, and it all makes sense to me. This comment pretty much sums it up, "If you give a gun to a monkey and the monkey shoots someone, you don't blame the monkey".. Lol..

I have one more question for you guys.. How would you mark the pistons, to keep track of which is which?

I'm hesitant to add a scratch anywhere on them, but I know I'm just being anal about it. I've heard of using a punch to put little divots (1 thru 4), but I don't want to hit them like that. I've been using a sharpie, but the solvents can wash the marks off...

If worse comes to worst, I can always go back and look at the pics to see which is which, but I'm just thinking of simplifying the process. Would you make "physical" marks in the pistons to keep track of them? ... or should I just refer back to the pics later?

Jim2
04-04-2015, 08:58 PM
... For the valves, I didn't try the solvent test yet. But I just heard about using light this morning.

... So I laid a 500 watt halogen on top and looked in through the ports... I only saw light getting past "one" of the intake valves, and it was very, very, little. Everything else was perfectly dark (as far as I can tell). I think I'll try this test again tonight... My eyes ain't quite as keen as they used to be, but they still work pretty good. I only use +1.25 readers at this point..

If anyone has any opinions about this "light test", I'm all ears.. thanks again guys..

Henry
04-05-2015, 03:53 AM
... For the valves, I didn't try the solvent test yet. But I just heard about using light this morning.

... So I laid a 500 watt halogen on top and looked in through the ports... I only saw light getting past "one" of the intake valves, and it was very, very, little. Everything else was perfectly dark (as far as I can tell). I think I'll try this test again tonight... My eyes ain't quite as keen as they used to be, but they still work pretty good. I only use +1.25 readers at this point..

If anyone has any opinions about this "light test", I'm all ears.. thanks again guys..

Jimbo, you sure you have a good valve seat? Little piece of crap will hold it open a hair (as in CH or RCH).

Henry

Jim2
04-05-2015, 04:25 AM
Jimbo, you sure you have a good valve seat? Little piece of crap will hold it open a hair (as in CH or RCH).

Henry

Thanks Henry, I was just getting ready to comment about that.

I just did the light test again, in the pitch dark, and I feel pretty sure that the valves are good now..

I laid this 500 watt halogen on the surface, and I can still only see the slightest little bit of light coming thru that one intake valve... It's so slight, I think it might just be be a little crud that got in there... it's "so" slight...

The rest of them are absolutely dark. .. even in absolute darkness, I couldn't see any light escaping from any of the other valves. I feel pretty good about it...I moved the light around, and I didn't see a blink of light in any of the other valves.

As best as I can understand it, I think my valves are fine, and they don't need to be lapped.

If anyone thinks I'm missing something here, I'm all ears.

I'm just a carpenter who wrenches on his own vehicles, but I know that I can still see "one ten thousandth of an inch" when the light is just right.

I did push on one of the valves earlier, just to see it move. I think I might've let some crud fall into it.. ??? That slight trace of light that I saw was so slight... My gut feeling is that it would've took at least a minute for acetone to seep through it ..


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1995_zpswlogheqi.jpg

Jim2
04-05-2015, 04:32 AM
...a hair (as in CH or RCH).

Henry

heheheh, I hear you Henry. I used to work in a machine shop and I measured my own hair. Human hair is usually .003"- .006"... but when someone says "an RCH", that means .002" or less ;)

Jim2
04-05-2015, 04:43 AM
This is my biggest concern at this point...

This is #1 and #2 cylinders.. #2 is ugly..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1987_zpsgpnyr5cz.jpg

Jim2
04-05-2015, 04:48 AM
... but, on the bright side, everything I could measure was within specs, with about .003" to spare.

That #2 scares me though...

Bob K
04-05-2015, 09:45 AM
To me that looks to bad to clean up, unless that brown stuff is something like a petroleum product that can be wiped off with solvent. It sure looks like rust and it needs to go to a machine shop and get bored to the bottom of the rust pits. They will bore it to the diameter for the new pistons they can get. They can give you an estimate on the work needed on the head too. Then you can make an enlightened decision as to repair or scrap the bike or just put it back together with no new parts and run it with the oil leaks and blow by that it's going to have. What's the coast of a new cylinder block? If I decided to put any new parts in it then I'd go all the way and bring everything back to spec. but that can be expensive.

Bob K

Henry
04-06-2015, 02:22 AM
[QUOTE=Jim2;272626]Thanks Henry, I was just getting ready to comment about that.

I just did the light test again, in the pitch dark, and I feel pretty sure that the valves are good now..

I laid this 500 watt halogen on the surface, and I can still only see the slightest little bit of light coming thru that one intake valve... It's so slight, I think it might just be be a little crud that got in there... it's "so" slight...

The rest of them are absolutely dark. .. even in absolute darkness, I couldn't see any light escaping from any of the other valves. I feel pretty good about it...I moved the light around, and I didn't see a blink of light in any of the other valves.

As best as I can understand it, I think my valves are fine, and they don't need to be lapped.

If anyone thinks I'm missing something here, I'm all ears.

I'm just a carpenter who wrenches on his own vehicles, but I know that I can still see "one ten thousandth of an inch" when the light is just right.

I did push on one of the valves earlier, just to see it move. I think I might've let some crud fall into it.. ??? That slight trace of light that I saw was so slight... My gut feeling is that it would've took at least a minute for acetone to seep through it ..QUOTE]

I say light is one thing, but those valves are moving to the beat of the ICPE parade. You, being a musician know if everyone is playing in the band at the same tempo and one nut is offbeat, what that can sound like. The band sounds shitty.

Gee, only a little bit of light but the engine sounds shitty. Wonder why?

For the hell of it take the block to a machine shop as those walls look like crap. See how much they would have to take off. They could bore the thing (all 4) out and use some dry ice and drop a sleeve in it. If your old pistons are fine, put on some new rings and drop them back in.

Looks like you gotta spend some money. Option is to throw the bike away. Look around also, for another bike that is smashed but runs and swap out the motor. I'm sure there are other motors you could find or just bite the bullet and fix this one. You'll only spend the money on something else anyway. Spend the money you didn't have to spend to heat your house all this nasty winter. Just got oil again a couple days ago. I do the CASH deal and got it for $2.03/gal. How much did you pay?

Henry

Jim2
04-07-2015, 03:32 AM
Dangit Henry, why do you always have to bring up the weather???

I haven't spent a nickel on heating oil since I left NJ...

Over the years, I bought a couple of blankets, but that was only because a woman wanted it.

To this day, my favorite blanket is still an old wool "afgan" that my aunt made.. I brought it with me from NJ, and I've used it since high school days. It only has one cigarette hole in it after all these years, and it's all I need here.

Nobody buys heating oil out here. Shoots, houses don't even have heaters out here...

I save a lot of money on snow tires and long johns too, but that doesn't mean I have all this extra money.. Milk is $5.69/gallon, and I drink a lot of milk.. Cheers !

Jim2
04-07-2015, 03:54 AM
To me that looks to bad to clean up, unless that brown stuff is something like a petroleum product that can be wiped off with solvent. It sure looks like rust and it needs to go to a machine shop and get bored to the bottom of the rust pits. They will bore it to the diameter for the new pistons they can get. They can give you an estimate on the work needed on the head too. Then you can make an enlightened decision as to repair or scrap the bike or just put it back together with no new parts and run it with the oil leaks and blow by that it's going to have. What's the coast of a new cylinder block? If I decided to put any new parts in it then I'd go all the way and bring everything back to spec. but that can be expensive.

Bob K

I'm afraid you might be right Bob.

That stain doesn't just "wash off"..

I has hoping it was just old carbon, but, now that I scratched at it with my fingernail and some potion, it's a lot of rust too.

I still have to add up the cost of taking it to the machine shop and all, but at this point, I'm already leaning towards just putting everything back together with minimal expense.

Either way, I figure I can't sell it right after I'm done.. I have to ride it for a while, just to see how much effect it has on everything. ... It'll be a lesson one way or the other.... Shoots, it's already a damn lesson.. But I gotta hear it run again, one way or the other at this point...

Jim2
04-07-2015, 04:03 AM
...

Gee, only a little bit of light but the engine sounds shitty. Wonder why?

...

Henry

I'm pretty sure that the shitty sound was the cam chain rattle Henry. It's a known issue with these bikes.

Newer CBs have a manual adjustment that's easy to adjust. This one is "supposed to be" automatic, but the "cam chain tensioner" is known to fail after a while... And it's hard to get at that buggah, you gotta pull the cams and all...

Jim2
04-07-2015, 04:25 AM
...

Gee, only a little bit of light but the engine sounds shitty. Wonder why?

...

Henry

This is the culprit Henry...


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/480c68fa-3e36-4d88-aae8-07dd124b20f2_zpso88leidj.jpg

The bottom linkage is "L shaped", so, when the spring pushes up, it pulls the cam chain "in"'.

The pot below the spring is a dashpot, and it's known to get gummed up..

And that's why the "cam chain tensioner" (CCT) is known to fail.

Jim2
04-07-2015, 04:42 AM
... but I still want to find the spec to see if the cam chain is still good.

"links per foot" or whatever they call it....

I didn't find the spec yet, but I'll definitely measure it when I do..

It looks like a strong chain, still in good shape, but I didn't look "that" close yet...

Jim2
04-15-2015, 02:17 AM
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1987_zpsgpnyr5cz.jpg


We ran the "three stone" hone in there today... and I'm happy with how she cleaned up.

I'm gonna run it like this, and see for myself how much difference this little bit of leftover pitting makes...


http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_2029_zpsihj5xhey.jpg

We have easy inspection rules out here... as long as there's no visible smoke, I'll pass inspection..

to be continued...

Jim2
04-15-2015, 02:24 AM
...actually, it's not "pitted". I can't feel any of those marks with my fingernail.. It's more of a "stain"...

Jim2
04-15-2015, 02:39 AM
... but I still can't get that top ring off of #4 piston...

I think I peened the edge of the piston ring gap when I was trying to tap the ring loose....

PB Blaster got the rest of it moving, but the ring ends are really stuck.

Does anyone know a trick to removing stuck rings? I tried everything I could think of, short of buying a special tool.. But by then, I might as well just buy a new piston..

Phil V
04-15-2015, 07:48 AM
Jim, did you try heat to break the ring loose ?

Bob K
04-15-2015, 11:07 AM
Just before you order that new ring take a mig welder and tack a 10d nail to the ring near the gap and pull the nail with a vice grip. Maybe clamp two strips of copper along side the ring with only the ring showing. That will act as a heat sink to prevent the welder from melting the piston. (I use a big Ideal worm gear hose clamp for that kind of thing or connect several together to make a longer one). Don't hold the trigger more than a second at a time. That method works on bolts where the head broke off and left the bolt stuck in its hole, of course you would use a bigger piece of metal than a nail for a stuck bolt, even a nut can work. The heat of welding the new piece on breaks the rust bond and a copper washer protects the surrounding metal.

Jim2
04-15-2015, 08:48 PM
Just before you order that new ring take a mig welder and tack a 10d nail to the ring near the gap and pull the nail with a vice grip. Maybe clamp two strips of copper along side the ring with only the ring showing. That will act as a heat sink to prevent the welder from melting the piston. (I use a big Ideal worm gear hose clamp for that kind of thing or connect several together to make a longer one). Don't hold the trigger more than a second at a time. That method works on bolts where the head broke off and left the bolt stuck in its hole, of course you would use a bigger piece of metal than a nail for a stuck bolt, even a nut can work. The heat of welding the new piece on breaks the rust bond and a copper washer protects the surrounding metal.

Thanks Bob, that's interesting. I don't have access to a mig welder these days, but I'll definitely keep that in mind..

Jim2
04-15-2015, 08:49 PM
Jim, did you try heat to break the ring loose ?

Not yet Phil... I have a little "Mapp gas" torch, but I didn't try it yet.

All Dry
04-16-2015, 12:30 AM
You have two ring land clearances on piston that are critical ring side clearance and back clearance. Side clearance you can measure with a feeler gauge but not back clearance. Back clearance is important it is the amount of clearance behind the ring. On the compression stroke gas pressure actually gets behind the ring in other words between the ring and piston and forces the ring out against the cylinder wall to seal the combustion event. If your rings are stuck that bad I would get a new piston .

Jim2
04-16-2015, 02:37 AM
You have two ring land clearances on piston that are critical ring side clearance and back clearance. Side clearance you can measure with a feeler gauge but not back clearance. Back clearance is important it is the amount of clearance behind the ring. On the compression stroke gas pressure actually gets behind the ring in other words between the ring and piston and forces the ring out against the cylinder wall to seal the combustion event. If your rings are stuck that bad I would get a new piston .

Thanks Mike, even though I don't fully understand what you just said there..

I think I messed up when I was first trying to get the ring out.

I was tapping the ring end, in an attempt to get it rotating. I thought it was rotating, but it turned out that my pick was just eating into the aluminum below the ring.

I went about 3/8" with it before I realized my mistake.

I peeled off a tiny little shaving when I did that, and now I'm assuming that the edge of the piston (below the ring end) is a little "peened".

I tried scratching at it with a utility knife, in hopes of removing that burred edge but, so far, no luck with that.

The rest of the ring moves freely. It's just that little spot at the ends that won't release.

This pic ain't the best, but maybe you can see the little damage below the ring ends..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1959_zpsg7nzrt5e.jpg


As it is right now, the ring ends are touching each other.

There's no gap to get between them to get a good hit on it. They're both pushed all the way in at this point.

I'm thinking about sharpening a nail punch into a small "wedge" that I can drive between them.. Not sure yet... But I think I'll be able to get it out if I can just create a little gap between the ends.

All Dry
04-20-2015, 07:46 PM
Thanks Mike, even though I don't fully understand what you just said there..

I think I messed up when I was first trying to get the ring out.

I was tapping the ring end, in an attempt to get it rotating. I thought it was rotating, but it turned out that my pick was just eating into the aluminum below the ring.

I went about 3/8" with it before I realized my mistake.

I peeled off a tiny little shaving when I did that, and now I'm assuming that the edge of the piston (below the ring end) is a little "peened".

I tried scratching at it with a utility knife, in hopes of removing that burred edge but, so far, no luck with that.

The rest of the ring moves freely. It's just that little spot at the ends that won't release.

This pic ain't the best, but maybe you can see the little damage below the ring ends..

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/IMG_1959_zpsg7nzrt5e.jpg


As it is right now, the ring ends are touching each other.

There's no gap to get between them to get a good hit on it. They're both pushed all the way in at this point.

I'm thinking about sharpening a nail punch into a small "wedge" that I can drive between them.. Not sure yet... But I think I'll be able to get it out if I can just create a little gap between the ends. I would just let them soak in solvent for a few days .I would be careful about forcing them out.

Jim2
04-21-2015, 02:52 AM
I would just let them soak in solvent for a few days .I would be careful about forcing them out.

Thanks man, but I've been trying to be careful about it. And it's been soaking for a long time now. Right now it's sitting in a ziplock baggie, soaked with PB Blaster (again)..

At this point, I feel pretty sure that I raised a burr on the piston edge when I was first trying to tap it out.

I think the problem is mechanical, not chemical.
I gotta release it from that burr.
The rest of the ring moves freely, it's just the ends that are stuck.

I'm gonna sharpen a nail punch into a "splitting wedge" and see if I can open that gap at the ends. The gloves are off now... I'm not gonna pussy foot around with it anymore. If I ruin the piston, so be it... it'll add $65 to my parts list... but that piston is kinda rough anyway, so, no big loss.

I'll go after it again soon..

My friend suggested baking it @ 350 degrees for an hour before trying it.. and that might be worth a try, but I still think it's just a microscopic burr holding it... and it's all my fault..

Jim2
04-21-2015, 02:57 AM
Now that I look at that picture again, I realize that you can't see the little burr that I'm talking about. My phone camera ain't that good.. but it's there, I saw it when it happened..

Bob K
04-21-2015, 08:36 AM
You should be able to slice the burr with a new single edge razor blade. Make several passes. Aluminum is soft. Be careful of your fingers, it takes a lot of pressure to slice and when the blade breaks free your hand is going to pull it a long way, so be sure the other hand isn't down range of the sharp blade. Think about holding the piston in a vice instead of in your hand.

All Dry
04-22-2015, 02:10 AM
Thanks man, but I've been trying to be careful about it. And it's been soaking for a long time now. Right now it's sitting in a ziplock baggie, soaked with PB Blaster (again)..

At this point, I feel pretty sure that I raised a burr on the piston edge when I was first trying to tap it out.

I think the problem is mechanical, not chemical.
I gotta release it from that burr.
The rest of the ring moves freely, it's just the ends that are stuck.

I'm gonna sharpen a nail punch into a "splitting wedge" and see if I can open that gap at the ends. The gloves are off now... I'm not gonna pussy foot around with it anymore. If I ruin the piston, so be it... it'll add $65 to my parts list... but that piston is kinda rough anyway, so, no big loss.

I'll go after it again soon..

My friend suggested baking it @ 350 degrees for an hour before trying it.. and that might be worth a try, but I still think it's just a microscopic burr holding it... and it's all my fault..Your friend is not to far off base however 350 F is probably not warm enough . However you should never bake aluminum parts over 600 F. Thermal cleaning can help vaporize some of the crud however I wouldn't want to cook in my oven after that.

Jim2
04-22-2015, 04:00 AM
Your friend is not to far off base however 350 F is probably not warm enough . However you should never bake aluminum parts over 600 F. Thermal cleaning can help vaporize some of the crud however I wouldn't want to cook in my oven after that.

heheheh, roger that... Thanks Mike, I'll definitely keep that in mind.... [)

But I still don't see how heat will help with the tiny burr (that I can only see in my 'minds eye'). My eyes ain't quite as keen as they used to be, but I'm pretty sure there's a little burr inside there.

Bob, I already tried getting a utility knife blade in there, but the gap is SO tight... they don't even make feeler gages that thin. iirc, it's .0004" ... The tip of the utility blade doesn't want to go deep enough, and I don't want to start carving it like wood. ;)

Henry
04-22-2015, 10:53 AM
Phil V asked if you tried heat. I like the same idea. I don't know how much heat from a propane torch you can put on that ring before you run into trouble with too much heat on the aluminum.

Can you get the part of the ring that I think you said moves, to come out of the groove any? I was thinking maybe one of those small hook tools to grab the loose end and pull that part of the ring out. Cut the loose away and work from there.

Any machine shops that do motors near you? Take that sucker in as I'm sure they have a better way since they must face this often.

Someone else said a new piston. Any bike shop engine rebuilders in the area? Show them your piston and they might just have a used one or be able to get that ring out for you.

Again, this is one of those times, many of us wish we could reach through the screen and touch that thing ourselves. PM Phil on the heat. Good luck.

Henry

Mooch
04-22-2015, 11:35 AM
Junk it ...sell off parts . That motor will never be right .

I can't believe I'm the only one here that see what a mess that engine is .

Mooch

Henry
04-22-2015, 01:05 PM
Junk it ...sell off parts . That motor will never be right .

I can't believe I'm the only one here that see what a mess that engine is .

Mooch

You heard the mooch! And, he's probably right. Why is it that whenever you have a problem, like with your truck, it's never something easy?

I don't think mooch or I really care what you do but you appear to be working with a "soft-on". You know, just never gonna get it to fire.

Price a new piston and put it back together.

Henry

BTW: You say I always talk about the snow. Well, you aren't the only one who avoided it this year. Mooch snuck away from it while sunning himself at his other estate this winter. Good luck Jim2!

Jim2
04-23-2015, 02:51 AM
You heard the mooch! And, he's probably right. Why is it that whenever you have a problem, like with your truck, it's never something easy?

I don't think mooch or I really care what you do but you appear to be working with a "soft-on". You know, just never gonna get it to fire.

Price a new piston and put it back together.

Henry

BTW: You say I always talk about the snow. Well, you aren't the only one who avoided it this year. Mooch snuck away from it while sunning himself at his other estate this winter. Good luck Jim2!

heheheh, thanks Henry.

I AM working on it with a "soft on" as you say.. I'm not in a rush.. When she's ready to run, she'll run.

The price of the parts is a slight issue. I have a few bills that come first... And then my daughter's car needed a power steering pump, so that set me back a little, but I was able to get it done yesterday.

I know it's true that my CB will never be "right", but she'll run again. This thread might take another month or so before I have a new vid for you guys to hear it run.

This is all very interesting to me. I have zero experience with removing/replacing/re-using pistons, so this will all be a lesson for me one way or the other. It's the kind of thing that can't be learned from a book...

The only way I'll replace that piston is if I think it will "grenade".. (a new piston is $64)

But, from everything I hear, it sounds like the biggest problem might be a lack of performance, but not "grenade".
Maybe longevity would be an issue too, but that's where the lesson comes in.
I'll be checking the compression "early and often".

If it was made out of wood, I would know what to expect. But I don't have the "feel" for what will happen with these old engine parts. This is what I want to learn.... Hopefully, it's not a painful lesson.. But I'll risk it.

I wish I could do something about all that snow you guys have to deal with, but I'm not in charge of that shit.
As a carpenter, I've learned that competing with mother nature is a losing bet. The only time you can win is when she lets you win. There is no way to forcibly win, no matter what you do. All you can do is prepare for it.. or escape ;)

Jim2
04-23-2015, 03:10 AM
....Why is it that whenever you have a problem, like with your truck, it's never something easy?...
Henry

heheheheh, that's because I don't ask for help with the easy stuff Henry!

I can replace any part... and I can (almost always) do it without snapping/stripping any bolts ... My issue is all about knowing which part needs to be replaced in the first place. :thumb:

Jim2
04-23-2015, 03:15 AM
Junk it ...sell off parts . That motor will never be right .

I can't believe I'm the only one here that see what a mess that engine is .

Mooch

I can't bring myself to do that Mooch... There's too much to learn here. I just hope the lesson doesn't hurt...

If the engine blows up, I'll still have parts to sell...

Jim2
04-23-2015, 03:26 AM
...Can you get the part of the ring that ... moves, to come out of the groove any?...

Henry
The ring moves in and out in the groove, all the way around..

But it doesn't come out enough to get behind it, and we already tried getting a grip on the little bit that comes out. No luck with that so so far.

The ring is only trapped at the ring ends. The rest of it moves freely.

The piston has been soaking in a baggie with PB Blaster for a long time now.

I'm 99% sure that it's not corrosion holding it.

I'm 99% sure that I did raise a burr with my pick when I first tried to dig it out....

And that's why I can't see how heat would help...???

Jim2
04-23-2015, 03:46 AM
If the piston is hot, do the ring clearances open up?

Alloy piston, steel rings...

I'm trying to picture how it works....

Henry
04-23-2015, 03:51 AM
If the piston is hot, do the ring clearances open up?

Alloy piston, steel rings...

I'm trying to picture how it works....

I suggested that you PM Phil V about the heat issue. Or, All Dry Mike may be able to help you out with that.

Heat is what we do with something stubborn. I just don't know what you can get away with having the aluminum there.

Henry

Jim2
04-23-2015, 04:57 AM
I suggested that you PM Phil V about the heat issue. Or, All Dry Mike may be able to help you out with that.

Heat is what we do with something stubborn. I just don't know what you can get away with having the aluminum there.

Henry

Heheheheh, I hear you Henry.. And, sometimes a bigger hammer does the trick too ;)

But, leverage is even better imo..

I apologize if I sound stubborn, but, if you could hold this piston in your hand, you would see exactly what I'm talking about. The rest of the ring is loose, it's just the ends that are stuck. .... I'm pretty sure that I know "why" it's stuck, because I'm pretty sure I caused it with my own hand... :redface:

One way or another, even if I have to cut that friggin piston in half...!!! I intend to find out why this damn ring won't come off!

... but I think I already know...

Henry
04-23-2015, 05:18 AM
Heheheheh, I hear you Henry.. And, sometimes a bigger hammer does the trick too ;)

But, leverage is even better imo..

I apologize if I sound stubborn, but, if you could hold this piston in your hand, you would see exactly what I'm talking about. The rest of the ring is loose, it's just the ends that are stuck. .... I'm pretty sure that I know "why" it's stuck, because I'm pretty sure I caused it with my own hand... :redface:

One way or another, even if I have to cut that friggin piston in half...!!! I intend to find out why this damn ring won't come off!

... but I think I already know...

That ring was stuck before you reshaped the piston. Get behind it with a small hook tool, pull it out and cut it off. Then go after the stuck part. Heat buddy.

Henry

Jim2
04-23-2015, 05:30 AM
That ring was stuck before you reshaped the piston. Get behind it with a small hook tool, pull it out and cut it off. Then go after the stuck part. Heat buddy.

Henry
I tried that approach, but we couldn't get behind it Henry.. even with four hands and a vice...

The back of the ring will not expose itself, and we couldn't get a grip on the little bit that does pop out.

Phil V
04-23-2015, 10:11 AM
Jim, If you want any hope of that engine staying together then like I said several pages ago -- throw that piston out and replace it with a new piston. Your first pictures showed where areas of the top sides of the piston were eaten away. If you put that piston back in the bike it is just about guaranteed that will be the first place that the engine will fail. It will continue to burn/eat away in the areas that are already missing metal. Think combustion turbulence inside the combustion chamber, that what appears to be a little aluminum eaten away WILL cause turbulence in the combustion chamber that will exacerbate the existing problem and exponentially make it worse. Think burned piston to where that cylinder will seize up. You are not going to cheat the hangman using that bad piston.

Henry
04-23-2015, 02:05 PM
Sounds like you need to bite the bullet. I think you need to replace that piston. $64 for a new one and maybe there is a really good used one out there.

Take it to a shop that rebuilds engines like yours and let them have a look. If they agree with what Phil said, then stop wasting time with that piston.

I'll send you $5.00 towards the new one.

Shit, for a hundred bucks or less, you can probably find another bike. Hit some of you old buddies in NJ to find a piston.

If you weren't so determined (admirable) to make it run, I would trow it out!

Tell you what. By post 200 in this thread if it ain't running, sell it. Have a genuine "blue light special". I think we all wish you well but I think what Phil is saying is like in your carpenter world, if the board has been eaten by carpenter ants and no longer structurally sound, you just CANNOT use it. You can still keep it for wall décor within your domain. Capece?

Henry

Jim2
04-24-2015, 03:37 AM
Sounds like you need to bite the bullet. I think you need to replace that piston. $64 for a new one and maybe there is a really good used one out there.

Take it to a shop that rebuilds engines like yours and let them have a look. If they agree with what Phil said, then stop wasting time with that piston.

I'll send you $5.00 towards the new one.

Shit, for a hundred bucks or less, you can probably find another bike. Hit some of you old buddies in NJ to find a piston.

If you weren't so determined (admirable) to make it run, I would trow it out!

Tell you what. By post 200 in this thread if it ain't running, sell it. Have a genuine "blue light special". I think we all wish you well but I think what Phil is saying is like in your carpenter world, if the board has been eaten by carpenter ants and no longer structurally sound, you just CANNOT use it. You can still keep it for wall décor within your domain. Capece?

Henry

Lmao Henry, I hear ya!

I was already thinking the same thing... I know I caused that burr.. and I don't like that rounded edge, even if it "is" microscopic.

Maybe I'll replace it. But, one way or another, I will remove that damn ring! It's almost personal now... ;) Even if I have to cut the damn piston, I will see that ring come out..

But I can't promise to have it done before the two hundredth post... Lol..

Jim2
04-24-2015, 03:43 AM
Jim, If you want any hope of that engine staying together then like I said several pages ago -- throw that piston out and replace it with a new piston. Your first pictures showed where areas of the top sides of the piston were eaten away. If you put that piston back in the bike it is just about guaranteed that will be the first place that the engine will fail. It will continue to burn/eat away in the areas that are already missing metal. Think combustion turbulence inside the combustion chamber, that what appears to be a little aluminum eaten away WILL cause turbulence in the combustion chamber that will exacerbate the existing problem and exponentially make it worse. Think burned piston to where that cylinder will seize up. You are not going to cheat the hangman using that bad piston.

I hear you Phil, and I know it's true..

But I don't know how soon to expect that first failure.

If it'll be good for another 15-20 thousand miles, that's plenty..

and maybe I won't push it as hard as I used to. That might be a good thing too ;)

Jim2
04-24-2015, 03:58 AM
...for a hundred bucks or less, you can probably find another bike. ...

Henry

heheheheh not even close Henry... these CB's are rare in the USA. (1994-1995 CB1000f)

Even on the mainland, it would be hard to find parts for this one.

Any bike that runs, is "automatically" worth $1500 on this island.. When I first moved out here, I tried to buy a bike... and I was shocked at the price of some "rat rods". A $300 dollar bike in NJ is worth $900 here... I offended the first guy I made an offer to, he hung up on me... but then I realized why he held his ground.

Henry
04-24-2015, 11:40 AM
heheheheh not even close Henry... these CB's are rare in the USA. (1994-1995 CB1000f)

Even on the mainland, it would be hard to find parts for this one.

Any bike that runs, is "automatically" worth $1500 on this island.. When I first moved out here, I tried to buy a bike... and I was shocked at the price of some "rat rods". A $300 dollar bike in NJ is worth $900 here... I offended the first guy I made an offer to, he hung up on me... but then I realized why he held his ground.

Well hell, Jimbo, you have a money maker on your hands. I don't follow bikes nor did I realize they are worth so much more where you live.

Maybe you can get your buddy mooch to send them to you (your dime) and all you have to do is resell them!

It's a no brainer now to just buy a new piston. Get it running, drive it a couple weeks and after your long hard winter, clean it up really well and sell that sucker!

Do seasons make a difference at all over there? What I mean is, selling a 4 x 4 here now won't fetch as much as after the first snowfall. Likewise, selling a convertible here now will get a sale vs. trying to sell one of those after the first snowfall. Seasons most likely don't matter there. You people live like in 'limbo' Do what the fluk you want, when the fluk you want. Except getting a ring off of a piston.

Hey, how 'bout if I send you my die grinder (only borrow & postage on you)? This way, you could just grind that ring out. Have to hold you hand very steady. Or, hell, you being a carpenter, you most like have a router. Put a metal cutting bit in it, bury it in the piston groove and 'get that ring'. I'll go up to giving you $10 for the new piston; what say?

Henry

Phil V
04-25-2015, 10:22 AM
I hear you Phil, and I know it's true..

But I don't know how soon to expect that first failure.

If it'll be good for another 15-20 thousand miles, that's plenty..

and maybe I won't push it as hard as I used to. That might be a good thing too ;)

It won't last anywhere near 15-20 thousand miles. It will seize up long before that. And it could seize up at speed on a blind corner of road.

We're done here .

Jim2
04-26-2015, 01:39 AM
It won't last anywhere near 15-20 thousand miles. It will seize up long before that. And it could seize up at speed on a blind corner of road.

We're done here .

im having trouble with the site lately, but thanks Phil. I was wondering how long to expect that piston to last.

For some reason, I can't log in from my computer .

Len
04-26-2015, 07:28 AM
im having trouble with the site lately, but thanks Phil. I was wondering how long to expect that piston to last.

For some reason, I can't log in from my computer .

Jim
Send me a PM with the IP address of the computer that's having a problem and I'll see if it's blocked at this end.

Jim2
04-28-2015, 03:10 AM
Jim
Send me a PM with the IP address of the computer that's having a problem and I'll see if it's blocked at this end.

Thanks for getting it sorted out Len, everything works fine now..

Jim2
04-28-2015, 03:32 AM
Well hell, Jimbo, you have a money maker on your hands. I don't follow bikes nor did I realize they are worth so much more where you live.

Maybe you can get your buddy mooch to send them to you (your dime) and all you have to do is resell them!

It's a no brainer now to just buy a new piston. Get it running, drive it a couple weeks and after your long hard winter, clean it up really well and sell that sucker!

Do seasons make a difference at all over there? What I mean is, selling a 4 x 4 here now won't fetch as much as after the first snowfall. Likewise, selling a convertible here now will get a sale vs. trying to sell one of those after the first snowfall. Seasons most likely don't matter there. You people live like in 'limbo' Do what the fluk you want, when the fluk you want. Except getting a ring off of a piston.

Hey, how 'bout if I send you my die grinder (only borrow & postage on you)? This way, you could just grind that ring out. Have to hold you hand very steady. Or, hell, you being a carpenter, you most like have a router. Put a metal cutting bit in it, bury it in the piston groove and 'get that ring'. I'll go up to giving you $10 for the new piston; what say?

Henry

I tried to reply to your post a few days ago Henry, but it wouldn't go thru.

This is a small island... when/if I ever sell the CB, I will definitely tell the whole story about the engine to the future owner. But I intend to put plenty miles on it myself! ... If nothing else, just to check my work.... If she's gonna seize up, I'd rather be the one that goes for the ride myself.... I don't think I could live with myself if "someone else" died for my lesson..

As for selling parts, I'm sure the bike is worth more "in parts".... but the shipping would take a big bite out of my profits...

My only realistic option is to get er runnin, learn my lesson, and then , "maybe" sell er next year.

My dream bike is a CR500 motard anyway... out here, it's possible to get a two-stroke street legal.

A CR500 with street tires, lowered suspension, and raised gearing, would be awesome.

"Kick start" and all :)

Jim2
04-28-2015, 03:45 AM
...Do seasons make a difference at all over there? What I mean is, selling a 4 x 4 here now won't fetch as much as after the first snowfall. ...

...

Henry


PS Henry, we only have two seasons out here... Dry season and wet season.

"Winter" is wet season... and the daytime temp still averages about 76. When it gets into the sixties, some people like to say "it's freezing today".

LMAO ! ! !

So, yeah, the seasons don't affect the price of bikes too much out here ;)

Imo, "winter" is the best time to ride out here because it's not too hot to wear gear.

Henry
04-28-2015, 04:24 AM
Thanks for getting it sorted out Len, everything works fine now..

Glad you're back on the ABS forum. I asked one of our finer members to send you an email, then I got your PM back.

I need you on regularly as you have been. I rely on you on in our wee hours of the night when I can't sleep (like now 4:17am). It sucks to come on the site here and at the bottom of the screen only see me.

I commend you also, for staying with it on that bike. You have a very hard head but hell, you may just get it running well enough to drive it. I wouldn't beat it if and when you do. I would think it may start to run crappy if that piston was going to fail or make noise before it seizes and sends you to the mainland. None of us want you to get hurt on that thing. Keep us posted.

Henry

Jim2
04-28-2015, 06:21 AM
Glad you're back on the ABS forum. I asked one of our finer members to send you an email, then I got your PM back.

I need you on regularly as you have been. I rely on you on in our wee hours of the night when I can't sleep (like now 4:17am). It sucks to come on the site here and at the bottom of the screen only see me.

I commend you also, for staying with it on that bike. You have a very hard head but hell, you may just get it running well enough to drive it. I wouldn't beat it if and when you do. I would think it may start to run crappy if that piston was going to fail or make noise before it seizes and sends you to the mainland. None of us want you to get hurt on that thing. Keep us posted.

Henry

heheheh, thanks Henry, I appreciate your advice (and all you guys' advice) over the years..

I was gonna go after that ring again on Sunday, but I didn't. I rested all day, and it was good. Sometimes ya just gotta say fuggit.

I guess I'll go ahead and replace the damn piston, but I still intend to see that ring come off... one way or another, dammit!!! even if I have to cut the damn piston in half!

If nothing else, it'll make for a cool ashtray..

Henry
04-28-2015, 11:01 AM
heheheh, thanks Henry, I appreciate your advice (and all you guys' advice) over the years..

I was gonna go after that ring again on Sunday, but I didn't. I rested all day, and it was good. Sometimes ya just gotta say fuggit.

I guess I'll go ahead and replace the damn piston, but I still intend to see that ring come off... one way or another, dammit!!! even if I have to cut the damn piston in half!

If nothing else, it'll make for a cool ashtray..

You smoke?

Henry

Jim2
04-29-2015, 03:37 AM
You smoke?

Henry

ummm, yeah... are you writing a book my friend? ...or am I about to hear what a bad habit it is?

Henry
04-29-2015, 12:58 PM
ummm, yeah... are you writing a book my friend? ...or am I about to hear what a bad habit it is?

No books, no lectures! You're a big boy and can make your own choices.

In general, it's harder to quit than heroin.

Thanks for the honest reply.

Henry

Jim2
04-30-2015, 01:56 AM
No books, no lectures! You're a big boy and can make your own choices.

In general, it's harder to quit than heroin.

Thanks for the honest reply.

Henry

At the risk of derailing this whole thread, I heard that story before Henry. But I never tried heroin, so I can't speak from experience.

I quit smoking for "almost" a year once, but the desire never went away. I know many people who quit for longer than that, and they all say the same thing... The desire never goes away... and being around it just makes it harder to resist.

imo, the only way to quit smoking is "cold turkey".. But you gotta have a strong motivation to pull that off. Cheers Henry, let's just leave it at that :thumb:

Phil V
04-30-2015, 09:22 AM
I quit smoking cold turkey close to 20 years ago. I was at my family doctor of some ten years for a cold or flu bug or something like that and he asks me - again - have you quit smoking yet ? To which I say " No". He gets quiet for a second and looks me straight in the eye and says " what are you waiting for, a heart attack ?" I said "you're serious, aren't you?" and he still looking me straight in the eye said "yes, I'm serious". So I told him OK, I just quit smoking. (and I never smoked since).

I already knew before I quit smoking that I really didn't enjoy smoking that much any more, it was more mechanical motion than anything else. Just reach for a cigarette without even thinking. I caught myself many times mechanically reaching for a non existent cigarette in my shirt pocket without even thinking about it for at least a year after I quit smoking. NO one smokes in my house ever and only in my truck if the windows can be down (warmer weather, not winter time). Occasionally someone will be smoking around me outside and it DOES still smell good to me. But not near good enough to start smoking again. And I never preach to other people about quitting smoking. Like Henry says " it's a personal choice ". When you're ready to quit, you'll quit and not before that. There was nothing anyone could have said or done to get me to quit smoking until I was ready to quit. My family doctor sure as hell got my attention that day, though. And I thank him today for that mental kick in the ass it took to get me to quit smoking. Once I decided to quit it really wasn't that hard at all. Chewing regular gum for a while helped.

Mooch
04-30-2015, 05:53 PM
I never smoked cigs but use to smoke a lot of pot . Loved the pot but quit 1984 when a girl moved in with her young son . I have smoked a pipe and cigars for over 50 years . At one time I chewed a pack of Chewing tobacco a day for over 20 years .
I didn't want to quit the chewing tobacco but had too . That was the hardest thing I ever did .

My fishing buddy Mike smoked cigars like I do but quit cold turkey . Now he is like most who quit a pain in the ass .
On the way to Florida he complained about my cigar "my truck " I pulled over and said get out or shut up . Nothing in the world like someone who quits something and after quitting complains about it . I'm not afraid to speak my peace so I had to tell him ..if you want to spend the winter in Florida in my house ..don't ever bitch about smoke .

Now I would never smoke in someone's house or car unless they smoked and said it was ok .

BTW ..my wife hates my cigars but likes my pipe .

Mooch

SamG
04-30-2015, 06:48 PM
my wife hates my cigars but likes my pipe .

Bragging? ;)

Phil V
04-30-2015, 10:09 PM
Bragging? ;)

Ya, my ex-wife like my pipe but didn't like me smoking. LOL

Henry
05-01-2015, 10:49 AM
I never smoked cigs but use to smoke a lot of pot . Loved the pot but quit 1984 when a girl moved in with her young son . I have smoked a pipe and cigars for over 50 years . At one time I chewed a pack of Chewing tobacco a day for over 20 years .
I didn't want to quit the chewing tobacco but had too . That was the hardest thing I ever did .

My fishing buddy Mike smoked cigars like I do but quit cold turkey . Now he is like most who quit a pain in the ass .
On the way to Florida he complained about my cigar "my truck " I pulled over and said get out or shut up . Nothing in the world like someone who quits something and after quitting complains about it . I'm not afraid to speak my peace so I had to tell him ..if you want to spend the winter in Florida in my house ..don't ever bitch about smoke .

Now I would never smoke in someone's house or car unless they smoked and said it was ok .

BTW ..my wife hates my cigars but likes my pipe .

Mooch

You said, " my wife hates my cigars but likes my pipe ]

I'll add: my wife hates my cigars but likes my pipe AND ME!

Henry

Jim2
05-21-2015, 02:05 AM
I went ahead and ordered the parts the other day, and dammit, I got a call this morning saying that the head gasket is "NLA"... "No Longer Available"

WTF Honda!!!??? Why would I buy the piston and rings, if I can't get a damn head gasket???

I'm pissed...

I found an aftermarket head gasket and, ironically, it's made in italy.... lmao, after I just talked shit about Italian cars.. the irony is thick here..

Mooch
05-22-2015, 12:52 AM
I found an aftermarket head gasket and, ironically, it's made in italy.... lmao, after I just talked shit about Italian cars.. the irony is thick here..

Well at least you will have one quality part in that rice burner .

Mooch

Jim2
05-22-2015, 02:32 AM
Well at least you will have one quality part in that rice burner .

Mooch

heheheheheh lol Mooch.... I would pay extra for a "NOS" Honda gasket...

That Italian part was relatively cheap, even with the international shipping... But I do believe that Japanese steel is just better than Italian steel... but that's a whole different story..

Bottom line, Japan makes good steel..

bmarler
05-22-2015, 10:44 AM
much as i like italian cars i have to agree that the steel they use (or at least the steel they used in the 60's) leaves a little to be desired. some of those cars were rusting on the dealers lots.
but if you want to talk cast aluminum the italians were awesome!
i'm not surprised that you had trouble finding a n.o.s. honda gasket, i heard that honda isn't really interested in keeping the older stuff on the road.
i've been told that they sent all of the old stock of spares to the scrapper. kinda sucks for the guy trying to restore one...

bmarler
05-22-2015, 10:51 AM
hmmm,
i must have had some bad information. i just searched for old honda parts and there seems to be plenty available. my bad

Jim2
05-23-2015, 02:20 AM
hmmm,
i must have had some bad information. i just searched for old honda parts and there seems to be plenty available. my bad

I can still get plenty of parts for the CB... A lot of the parts are common to bikes from the 80's... The body parts are the hardest parts to find, because Honda only sold the CB1000F in the USA for 2 years.

It seems to me that all the parts are in Europe these days.. I paid $50 for a friggin footpeg when I crashed it! ... and it was a "used" footpeg to boot.. A "new" footpeg was actually made from several parts, and it would've been ridiculously expensive... Fifty bucks was practically a bargain, but it still felt like a rip-off...

Never again... I will never buy a rare bike ever again..

"Aftermarket parts" is always gonna be a consideration with any vehicle that I ever buy in the future.. :nono:

I'm really shocked that Honda stopped making the head gasket. To tell the truth, it pisses me off..

Why would I buy the rings, if I cant get a damn head gasket?

WTF Honda?!?!?

Jim2
05-23-2015, 02:51 AM
Here's another example...

If not for the "V-Rod", I wouldn't be able to get the correct size rear tire anymore ..

There was a time when the stock of 18" tires was running out.

All the new bikes have 17" rims, and it was getting real hard to find an 18" rear tire.

It got so bad... One of the big upgrades for the CB was to get a 17" back wheel from a "99 Blackbird"... It would bolt right up, and it would open up all kinds of options for tire choice.

All the best sport bike tires are 17" these days. But Dunlop came out with a new 18" tire for the V-Rod... and it happens to be the the exact right size for the CB.. Imagine that... it's like Harley saved Honda... I find that to be as ironic as anything I ever heard! ...but I'm sure it's all just "business" in the end...

Jim2
05-23-2015, 05:21 AM
I got a new rear tire delivered to my door for $185, and I mounted it myself..

About a week later, I went to the local honda shop for some oil... Just for shits and grins, I asked the guy about a new rear tire too..

So, he got on his computer, and then looked me in the eye and said "hmmm... it looks like there's only one option for your rear tire... it will be $301, "but that includes free installation"....

Lmao.. "Free installation"... yeah, and you can kiss my ass for free too!
I was still chuckling as I pulled out of that parking lot. And I never went back...

Skalabala
01-07-2016, 03:54 AM
You know you could take a small chisel and hit the stuck ring all around and it will shock loose or break up in pieces and then can be removed.
A second hand piston will also work.
Done it plenty of times.
And an old engine has a lesser chance to seize when it has been rebuilt as the piston clearances are bigger now.
The marks on the sleeve are in fact pit marks, you can not feel microns with your finger nail.
That engine will run for a long time if it gets good oil and maintenance.

As a last note, if that engine came out with nikasil plated sleeves then it needs to be redone with nikasil or it will seize.

Jim2
01-07-2016, 06:07 AM
You know you could take a small chisel and hit the stuck ring all around and it will shock loose or break up in pieces and then can be removed.
A second hand piston will also work.
Done it plenty of times.
And an old engine has a lesser chance to seize when it has been rebuilt as the piston clearances are bigger now.
The marks on the sleeve are in fact pit marks, you can not feel microns with your finger nail.
That engine will run for a long time if it gets good oil and maintenance.

As a last note, if that engine came out with nikasil plated sleeves then it needs to be redone with nikasil or it will seize.

Thank you brother, but it's over... the CB is worth more in parts than it is as a running bike. I'm gonna part it out....

After seeing the jugs with my own eye, I'm sure it could run again, but I'm also sure that it will never be what it once was...

I'd rather get a Motard anyway... the CB would eventually be the death of me, I already crashed it 4 times... I want a lighter bike..

Whatever bike I get next, parts availability will be a big part of my considerations.. **** that "rare classic" stuff... never again will I do that... I had to pay $55 for a used footpeg once. On a modern bike, it's a $20 part, brand new.

Skalabala
01-08-2016, 10:11 AM
Good idea to part it but sad, btw did you live in the era of IZ?

Jim2
01-08-2016, 12:29 PM
Good idea to part it but sad, btw did you live in the era of IZ?

I moved here in '91 so, yeah... Braddah Iz is still beloved here to this day.

Phil V
01-08-2016, 12:31 PM
Thank you brother, but it's over... the CB is worth more in parts than it is as a running bike. I'm gonna part it out....

After seeing the jugs with my own eye, I'm sure it could run again, but I'm also sure that it will never be what it once was...

I'd rather get a Motard anyway... the CB would eventually be the death of me, I already crashed it 4 times... I want a lighter bike..

Whatever bike I get next, parts availability will be a big part of my considerations.. **** that "rare classic" stuff... never again will I do that... I had to pay $55 for a used footpeg once. On a modern bike, it's a $20 part, brand new.

I saw a Ninja 250 on craigslist a couple days ago. Is that what you're looking for ? LOL

Jim2
01-08-2016, 12:47 PM
Sounds like you need to bite the bullet. I think you need to replace that piston. $64 for a new one and maybe there is a really good used one out there.

Take it to a shop that rebuilds engines like yours and let them have a look. If they agree with what Phil said, then stop wasting time with that piston.

I'll send you $5.00 towards the new one.

Shit, for a hundred bucks or less, you can probably find another bike. Hit some of you old buddies in NJ to find a piston.

If you weren't so determined (admirable) to make it run, I would trow it out!

Tell you what. By post 200 in this thread if it ain't running, sell it. Have a genuine "blue light special". I think we all wish you well but I think what Phil is saying is like in your carpenter world, if the board has been eaten by carpenter ants and no longer structurally sound, you just CANNOT use it. You can still keep it for wall décor within your domain. Capece?

Henry

Looks like you were right Henry. I'm gonna let it go. Same for the Magna too.

I like having a rare bike *when it runs*, but not being able to get parts is ridiculous. I'm not a collector. Now I just want to get it out of the yard to make room for my tablesaw...

When I get another bike, I'm gonna get something lighter.

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g267/jimguitars/CB%201000/Magnamodify-1.jpg

Jim2
01-08-2016, 12:57 PM
I saw a Ninja 250 on craigslist a couple days ago. Is that what you're looking for ? LOL

Don't laugh Phil... My friend had one of those little Ninjas and, it might not have much power but it sure does get around on a twisty road pretty quick!

Actually, I would be looking for a motard.. A "street legal dirt bike". The Suzuki DR 400 is pretty nice. KTM makes some real nice 600s too.... But, my dream bike right now would be a street legal CR 500. Lower the suspension a little, put some street tires on there, and go! We don't have all the emissions laws out here like on the mainland, so it Is possible to get a two stroke street legal. As long as there's no visible smoke coming out of the exhaust, it can pass.

Jim2
06-18-2016, 07:29 PM
...By post 200 in this thread if it ain't running, sell it. ...

Henry

I sold it Henry, with two posts to spare :D ... got 200 for the whole mess, and I even let the guy have the plastic boxes that the engine was in.

Henry
06-19-2016, 02:59 AM
I sold it Henry, with two posts to spare :D ... got 200 for the whole mess, and I even let the guy have the plastic boxes that the engine was in.

Phil said something about carpenter ants in a piece of wood.

Glad you finally applied what he said with the bike(s).

Seems we all keep shit with such great plans of resurrecting the thing. I've got a ton of stuff like that.

You're an inspiration (and Phil) with sorting this type out and saying, bye, bye!

You will get another bike.

Henry

Jim2
06-19-2016, 07:57 AM
Phil said something about carpenter ants in a piece of wood.

Glad you finally applied what he said with the bike(s).

Seems we all keep shit with such great plans of resurrecting the thing. I've got a ton of stuff like that.

You're an inspiration (and Phil) with sorting this type out and saying, bye, bye!

You will get another bike.

Henry

yeah Henry... It was kinda sad to see er go, but the guy knew what the bike can be and he was willing to take on the project. I hope he can bring er back, but it was a bit too much for me. He was a retired guy looking for a project (I think).

No more "rare" bikes for me... sometimes I lay em down, and I'd rather have something that's easier to get parts for.. When I dumped the CB and scraped up the tank, the footpeg and brake lever broke too. So I picked up the debris and threw it in a nearby garbage can... Then, when I was looking for a new footpeg, I realised that that I threw away a lot of expensive parts that could've been re-used. I wound up paying $50 for a "used" footpeg... A new one would've been well over 100.. I rode around for a while with a long bolt for a footpeg, while I tried to find the part..

The gas tank was still available at that time, but it was about $980 (plus shipping).

I loved that old CB, and I hope the guy brings er back to life instead of just parting it out... but it's out of my hands now. The bright side is that it's out of my way now too ;)

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWG8xyR0FwM

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWI8khwGT-M

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRzdhgL25W4

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5HhpctDRc

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvvV6FuCl4M

Jim2
06-19-2016, 08:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjh7TxalS8o