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Cameron
02-15-2015, 07:32 AM
HI

I've got a white 2010 honda pilot that I've taken good care of (exterior finish). Yesterday I brought it into my garage to do a thorough cleaning. You know how it is, work on everyone else's cars not your own. Anyway, after a full cleaning I found the usual brake dust which shows up as fine yellow dots mostly on the bottom third of the front doors. I took a picture but my lousy smartphone doesn't focus well so the photo is useless. Anyway, I typically use sure finish polish and wool bonnet on my makita, slow building to medium speed. Generally this takes care of it but this time it hasn't. I've never been super pleased with the factory cc and think this may be contributing to the "staying power" of the brake dust. The cc in my view has always looked somewhat hazy or dull. I'm wondering whether I should be using almost a color sand approach THEN the sure finish buff? Unfortunately any new approach will have to be done at a later date as I've got more jobs that need to be worked on now.

Of an interesting note, the front fender on this pilot had a ding about 4 years back which I fixed. The cc on it is great, polishes really nice and shiny with the same technique I used on the whole vehicle yesterday so I am thinking that the factor finish is a contributor to my problem.

Any thoughts from the finishing pros?

Cameron

Len
02-15-2015, 08:33 AM
HI

I've got a white 2010 honda pilot that I've taken good care of (exterior finish). Yesterday I brought it into my garage to do a thorough cleaning. You know how it is, work on everyone else's cars not your own. Anyway, after a full cleaning I found the usual brake dust which shows up as fine yellow dots mostly on the bottom third of the front doors. I took a picture but my lousy smartphone doesn't focus well so the photo is useless. Anyway, I typically use sure finish polish and wool bonnet on my makita, slow building to medium speed. Generally this takes care of it but this time it hasn't. I've never been super pleased with the factory cc and think this may be contributing to the "staying power" of the brake dust. The cc in my view has always looked somewhat hazy or dull. I'm wondering whether I should be using almost a color sand approach THEN the sure finish buff? Unfortunately any new approach will have to be done at a later date as I've got more jobs that need to be worked on now.

Of an interesting note, the front fender on this pilot had a ding about 4 years back which I fixed. The cc on it is great, polishes really nice and shiny with the same technique I used on the whole vehicle yesterday so I am thinking that the factor finish is a contributor to my problem.

Any thoughts from the finishing pros?

Cameron

If polishing alone won't solve your problem I'd go with some wet 3000 or 5000 grit Trizact on a 3/32" palm sander then hit it with the Makita and Sure Finish. Be sure to apply good protection after you remove the stain.

Bob K
02-15-2015, 10:44 AM
I've taken some pretty nasty stains off paint with a clay bar. Easy to try it out on one of the spots to see if you want to put that kind of effort in all the others.

Bob K

Phil V
02-16-2015, 10:16 AM
My first reaction was the clay bar. I would try that first. Most people swear by it for even rail dust.

Henry
02-16-2015, 10:44 AM
I don't think I would sand at all. If this is a contaminant it needs to be removed not ground in with sandpaper.

Secondly, I don't believe what you have is brake dust but rather road tar splatter and grease. That crap hardens really bad. You might even want to try a little road tar remover or test a couple spots with lacquer thinner to see if it melts any of this stuff. If it does begin to melt it, it will leave a smeared trail and you can see it's road crap.

The clay bar would be great for this as well. I maintain, however, you need to penetrate the chemical on the Pilot with a chemical to break it down. Let us know please.

Henry

Cameron
02-16-2015, 11:27 AM
HI fellas

Thanks for your replies. I don't have a clay bar that I can find at home and as today is family day everything is closed. Good thought on the bug/tar remover - that I do have. I guess the real question is, is this stain sitting on the top of the cc or has it sunk in. I managed to keep the pilot in my garage and work around it so it's been warm since Friday night, considering the temp here is -31'C (which is 24 below zero for my Fahrenheit friends..) that's luxury!

I'll hit it with the tar remover this afternoon and see if or how it works. I'll see too if I can get some pictures.

thanks again!

Henry
02-16-2015, 12:23 PM
HI fellas

Thanks for your replies. I don't have a clay bar that I can find at home and as today is family day everything is closed. Good thought on the bug/tar remover - that I do have. I guess the real question is, is this stain sitting on the top of the cc or has it sunk in. I managed to keep the pilot in my garage and work around it so it's been warm since Friday night, considering the temp here is -31'C (which is 24 below zero for my Fahrenheit friends..) that's luxury!

I'll hit it with the tar remover this afternoon and see if or how it works. I'll see too if I can get some pictures.

thanks again!

I'd be living next door to mooch in FL with temps like you're having. What are you using to heat your garage and is it insulated?

As for your brake dust color, it should be blackish/brown and should show more on the front wheels. Normally, anytime you see colored brake dust would be when the pads have gone too far and you have metal on metal which would give off specks that are rust colored. Again, around the wheels. Have to say, I never saw even that rusty mess travel to the lower sides of a vehicle. Know what I mean?

Henry

BTW: I would not think whatever is on your paint would have sunken into the clear. Just sitting on top, however, if you sandblasted the area hard enough and over time, it could have created little nicks in the clear and was able to get underneath.

Cameron
02-17-2015, 07:21 AM
ya...it's cold here.. When I rolled the pilot out of the garage this am to come to work the thermometer said 15'c... by the time I dropped my son off at school it was -17'c... and when I hit my office.. -21'c. (the bugs aren't bad tho..)

I heat my garage with a natural gas tube heater. It gets turned on early Oct and off late Apr. Generally I keep the space heated to about 14'c tho when I'm working on a vehicle all weekend I'll bump it up a bit. The garage is attached, and has ICF walls, insulated doors etc so the whole space is very tight and warm.

Onto my problem. I've attached a close-up photo below.
15320

This photo is about 5 inches away so it looks worse than it is (but it's still there and I want to remove it of course). The black dot you see is a stone chip. These yellow dots are the worst that there is just fyi. I used my bug/tar remover and while the cloth had a tiny bit of residue from vigorous rubbing the marks are still there. I used my fingernail to scratch a single dot after spraying and there was a mild improvement. I haven't tried any Omni grease/wax remover which I use during painting (didn't have any of that stuff at home) but will. If it doesn't remove the marks, and the clay bar proves ineffective, I'm thinking the 3000 grit is likely my only option left. I'm pretty sure that the marks are sitting on top of the cc but that they've got a good grip on the cc due to its year of driving since last proper polishing. My bad. As an aside, the brakes are in great shape - no worries there. My earlier suggestion of brake dust was due to a comment a friend made. His car, also white, had identical marks on the door and the autobody place he had some repairs done at indicated they were due to brake dust.

so...

Len
02-17-2015, 08:28 AM
Let us know what works best for you Cameron.

Henry
02-17-2015, 10:47 AM
ya...it's cold here.. When I rolled the pilot out of the garage this am to come to work the thermometer said 15'c... by the time I dropped my son off at school it was -17'c... and when I hit my office.. -21'c. (the bugs aren't bad tho..)

I heat my garage with a natural gas tube heater. It gets turned on early Oct and off late Apr. Generally I keep the space heated to about 14'c tho when I'm working on a vehicle all weekend I'll bump it up a bit. The garage is attached, and has ICF walls, insulated doors etc so the whole space is very tight and warm.

Onto my problem. I've attached a close-up photo below.

This photo is about 5 inches away so it looks worse than it is (but it's still there and I want to remove it of course). The black dot you see is a stone chip. These yellow dots are the worst that there is just fyi. I used my bug/tar remover and while the cloth had a tiny bit of residue from vigorous rubbing the marks are still there. I used my fingernail to scratch a single dot after spraying and there was a mild improvement. I haven't tried any Omni grease/wax remover which I use during painting (didn't have any of that stuff at home) but will. If it doesn't remove the marks, and the clay bar proves ineffective, I'm thinking the 3000 grit is likely my only option left. I'm pretty sure that the marks are sitting on top of the cc but that they've got a good grip on the cc due to its year of driving since last proper polishing. My bad. As an aside, the brakes are in great shape - no worries there. My earlier suggestion of brake dust was due to a comment a friend made. His car, also white, had identical marks on the door and the autobody place he had some repairs done at indicated they were due to brake dust.

so...

That pic shows what looks like rust dots. Were you or anyone (like for your buddy) doing any grinding of metal near by? Any metal grinding dust would turn to rust dots like your pic shows.

I said, I would NOT sand the area but that was IF it was a contaminant like road tar and the like. BUT maybe Len is right (again) and you should try the 3000. Use your fingernail on a couple of these dots to try and determine if they are indeed rust from metal dust that clung to the surface. Make sure you treat any raw surface you create to protect it after sanding.

Does it ever et warm up there? Through the years I've been to Canada and during really nice weather. Beautiful up there. You can keep the winters, however. Keep us posted.

Henry

TOGWT
04-28-2015, 05:19 AM
With white colour paint, over time the surface tends to attain an unsightly grey film, which is due to road dirt becoming ingrained in the pain. Regular use of P21SŪ High Performance Total Auto Wash, a d-limonene (citrus) based cleaner or an all-in-one (AIO) type cleaner polish will ensure surface road dirt and grime is removed from the paint surface restoring the gloss to the paint surface. The 'yellowing' is paint oxidation caused by ultra violet (UV-A) radiation; it takes time and neglect of the paint for this to occur.

White paint is subject to rail dust like every other paint colour; the only difference is that the rust stains show more readily than darker colours. Vehicle manufacturer studies have shown that failure to remove environmental contaminants, like imbedded rail dust, acid rain, industrial fallout and other environmental contaminants from paint film can cause premature degradation of the paint system.
Schedule: annually, dependent upon environmental conditions and vehicle exposure but more often on light coloured paint. To optimize the reflective properties and appearance of the paint surface, it is best to regularly remove both imbedded and surface contaminants and road dirt and oils.

Acidic Contaminants Identification

Ferrous Metal -
• Light coloured vehicles: Small rust burnt orange dots with black in centre of stain.
• Dark coloured vehicles: Small white or silver dots with a "rainbow hue" around the particle. The surface will also feel rough to the touch.

Industrial Fallout
• The surface feels rough to the touch and may exhibit crystalline deposits.
• Usually ferrous metal is present, as well as water spots.

Acid Rain
• Surface will exhibit irregular discoloured spotting.
• Dark coloured vehicles will show cloudy or grey spots where the acids have started to etch the paint.

Paint decontamination systems

Developed as a method of removing ferrous contamination beyond what can be removed by washing or claying alone. The only way to completely remove sintered (heat fused) ferrous iron particles is with a spray-on- rinse off decontamination system (OPT Ferrex, CarPro IronX, etc.) a decontamination towel (Nanoskin Surface Prep Towel) or detailers Clay