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MARTINSR
09-08-2014, 11:10 PM
Scroll down to post #4. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=6835058#post6835058

Brian

Len
09-09-2014, 06:22 AM
Scroll down to post #4. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=6835058#post6835058

Brian

I use my standard SEM guide coat if necessary. A light dusting helps guide the amount of sanding.

junk
09-09-2014, 06:31 AM
Basically using the sharpie as guide coat for wet sanding before polishing. Interesting. So the sharpie must buff off if you don't sand it off. I may try this.

Brian - Did you check out his post about blocking our primer? Very interesting also.

Len
09-09-2014, 08:18 AM
Basically using the sharpie as guide coat for wet sanding before polishing. Interesting. So the sharpie must buff off if you don't sand it off. I may try this.

Brian - Did you check out his post about blocking our primer? Very interesting also.

Why would you use a marker instead of a aerosol spray?

MARTINSR
09-09-2014, 08:42 AM
I think so you can put it ONLY where it's really needed, on that edge? I don't know, I have never put anything what so ever on clear like that, it's all new to me.

Brian

junk
09-09-2014, 09:12 AM
The aeresol would be harder to control is my thoughts. Also I'd be afraid it would react to the clear, or somehow leave a color/outline. Does the aeresol buff off or does it have to be sanded off?

I'm with Brian. I've never heard of anyone putting anything on clear for color sanding. Interesting concept. May try it.

Len
09-09-2014, 09:57 AM
I think so you can put it ONLY where it's really needed, on that edge? I don't know, I have never put anything what so ever on clear like that, it's all new to me.

Brian

I've never put marker on top of paint but I know it can bleed through a hundred coats of paint if you apply it underneath so it could be a real bad idea on primer unless you can remove every bit of it.

tbm3fan
09-11-2014, 10:13 PM
Here is another restoration that used a sharpie. I watched for awhile, as I have a 65, and this was to be an accurate restoration. Instead it veered into 100% perfection, on a run of the mill truck off the Ford assembly line, that I gave up watching about here. This is the type of restoration that I walk by at a show.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1234150-1966-f100-shortbed-styleside-full-stock-resto-build-thread-21.html

Len
09-11-2014, 10:32 PM
Here is another restoration that used a sharpie. I watched for awhile, as I have a 65, and this was to be an accurate restoration. Instead it veered into 100% perfection, on a run of the mill truck off the Ford assembly line, that I gave up watching about here. This is the type of restoration that I walk by at a show.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1234150-1966-f100-shortbed-styleside-full-stock-resto-build-thread-21.html
Why is a marker better than guide coat? I think that I could guide coat all the peaks in the time it takes to use marker on one peak.

MARTINSR
09-12-2014, 09:13 PM
I use nothing, I just watch what I am doing and use the clear (or paint) texture as my "guide coat". But the sharpie on the lines is interesting. What I do with the lines is simply not sand them (or very little) and then not buff them AT ALL and they get buffed anyway because they are so vulnerable to the buffer. But the Sharpie idea is damn interesting.

Brian

Sid
09-13-2014, 07:44 PM
about 40 years ago when I was learning to buff the old guy that was teaching me always said you don't need to buff the edges they won't shine anyway

Len
09-13-2014, 09:23 PM
about 40 years ago when I was learning to buff the old guy that was teaching me always said you don't need to buff the edges they won't shine anyway

In most cases the edge won't need sanding and polishing because it won't show the orange peel but it does shine and may need polishing if it doesn't shine properly. Edges will reflect a narrow band of light and, if needed, they can be carefully polished if the paint wasn't applied properly.

Sid
09-13-2014, 10:19 PM
In most cases the edge won't need sanding and polishing because it won't show the orange peel but it does shine and may need polishing if it doesn't shine properly. Edges will reflect a narrow band of light and, if needed, they can be carefully polished if the paint wasn't applied properly.

LOL, yeah I know he was telling me to stay off the edges after burning the paint off a few.

gtome
01-15-2015, 10:41 PM
I used to work with a guy that used a pencil to scribble on primer to use as a guide coat. No clue why he did it though. Only thing I could ever come up with is that we were paid by the hour so....

Dennis N. Schmidt
01-30-2015, 09:31 AM
I would never use a Sharpie but I can see using a Dry Erase Marker. Len's right a Sharpie will go through whatever is put on top of it from the bottom up so why would it not penetrate similarly from the top down. Using a guide coat on clear always made sense to me. The only objection I have to the idea is using a Sharpie. I'd have no hesitation with using a Dry Erase Marker as are used on Whiteboards. If someone has the balls to try a Sharpie on clearcoat I'd love to hear the results. I'd like to know how deeply into the paint it penetrates.

Cameron
01-30-2015, 11:27 AM
I'm with Dennis on this.. I can only imagine the "oh gawd" situation I'd likely get in if "I" used the sharpie...:goof:

Len
01-30-2015, 11:32 AM
I would never use a Sharpie but I can see using a Dry Erase Marker. Len's right a Sharpie will go through whatever is put on top of it from the bottom up so why would it not penetrate similarly from the top down. Using a guide coat on clear always made sense to me. The only objection I have to the idea is using a Sharpie. I'd have no hesitation with using a Dry Erase Marker as are used on Whiteboards. If someone has the balls to try a Sharpie on clearcoat I'd love to hear the results. I'd like to know how deeply into the paint it penetrates.

I have a piece of wood that I had cleared as a test, I'll apply some Sharpe to it then sand and polish to see what happens then post some pictures. This was cleared about a week ago so the amount of time and the kind of paint used could all have an effect on the outcome.

Tincup
10-13-2015, 01:36 PM
Don't know if anyone has tried this, but I have. I was sanding a lower valance panel that I painted, it had 1 run and some dust nibs. I used some 500 on a hard block to remove 90% of the run, then colored it with a Sharpie and used 1000 to finish removing it, came out great. It also worked great on the dust, you know how you always get that little low spot around the nib, just colored it and sanded till it was gone. Did not leave behind any staining, sanded right off. Give it a try, it comes in handy....:thumb:

Henry
10-14-2015, 07:42 AM
Guide coat over dull primer has merit and you don't need much at all. Just a burst from the buzz bomb. I don't use it as I learned in the 70's to 'feel' and still employ that method today.

Since colorsanding on clear shows a reflection, you see all you need to see in that reflection so I really see no need for anything else.

Back in the day, when we used lacquer and did a lot of wet sanding, we would let a slow running water hose run water down the side of a panel and let the gloss from the water show any high spots. Then, go feel for what you just saw, tweak it and you were home free. Any older body people know what I'm talking about by feeling.

I also (and always) agree with Dennis and it's good to hear from him again.

Henry

theastronaut
11-19-2015, 09:09 AM
Was doing some googling on wetsanding/buffing and came across this discussion, figured I'd chime in since that was my post Brian originally linked. I explained it better in another post, so I'll post that here. I don't use sprayed on guide coat on clear since it doesn't stick on the glossy surface- it comes right off and clogs fine grit (1000 and up) sandpaper pretty badly. Sharpie marker doesn't "soak in" or stain the clear, it'll come right off with buffing if you don't get it all sanded off.



Here are a few more tips on using Sharpie markings on edges and bodylines. Most people will tell you not to sand or buff anywhere near edges/lines or you'll cut through. Well, this leaves you with area that are slick as glass, and areas that still have orange peel. This technique only applies if you do the underlaying bodywork with the same block sanding style shown here, or you'll cut through the high/low spots of the paint when blocking the clear down. If your edges and bodylines aren't straight, the block will cut the high spots in a hurry.

I don't like the idea of cut/buffed flat surfaces and orange peeled edges and bodylines, so I started using a sharpie on the details to be able to sand them smooth as well. If you mark the edges with a sharpie, you can see exactly how much you're cutting so you cut just enough to level the surface and keep from sanding through the clear. This really makes the body lines stand out!


I use a zig-zag pattern for even coverage of the seam.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/548bc3f0.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/73cbe265.jpg


You want to sand the flatter part of the body line first, taking care not to sand in straight lines. If you sand in straight lines, you'll leave "drag" marks in the same shape as your block. Sand just enough to take the top of the sharpie off of the flat section, and leave a slight amount of marker showing on the creases/edges. Don't go crazy on edges or bodylines with 1000 grit- it's too easy to burn through- leave some marks showing. Save getting it 100% flat for the 2000 grit step. As long as you can still see some sharpie showing, you're safe.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/5c5e6f71.jpg


Once the flat section is sanded, mask it off and sand the rounded part. This keeps you from slipping and digging into the flat part- it's already flat.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/af41a80e.jpg

theastronaut
11-19-2015, 09:12 AM
Had to break it up in sections, can only post up to four pics at once?



A little bit of sharpie showing after the 1000 grit step. This will be sanded off in the 2000 grit step. You can see the "X" pattern I used when sanding, so there's no drag marks or distortion from the edge of the sanding block.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/fbacf711.jpg


After guidecoating and sanding with 2000/2500 (as shown in my earlier post) using the same masking technique show above.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/7f4773eb.jpg

theastronaut
11-19-2015, 09:14 AM
Continued...


And after buffing. Hold the buffer so the pad is spinning "off" the edges and isn't cutting into the edge. That keeps the edges from burning. On body lines, I like to used buffing pads that have a pointed edge, and sand in-line with the crease.

The body lines and edges look as good as the flat parts of the panels this way, and the whole panel is evenly flat- no orange peel spots anywhere. Sanding with 1000 grit gets the paint dead flat, and once it's brought back with 2000/2500 and buffing, the surface of the paint seemingly dissapears and all you see is the reflections. If you do it right and have no stray scratches or buffer marks, your eyes will have a hard time finding and focusing on the surface of the paint.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/c16879e5.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/8b10c108.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/f3ff0e15.jpg

theastronaut
11-19-2015, 09:15 AM
Continued...


http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/86c9ec2a.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/theastronaut/Random/926b233b.jpg

68ragtop
06-26-2016, 04:59 PM
Curious who has tried this, or is there something better than a sharpie?

I used a traditional guide coat after 600 on the clear, then 1000 grit to remove those scratches & the guide coat this worked great for this step. filled the 1000 grit scratch & I could see them plain as day. Sanded them all out, but didn't oversand.
But moving forward & applying another guide coat from 1000 to 1500 & 1500 -3000 seems overkill. But, I do like to see a reference on the surface so I have a visual to how much I have sanded off instead of just making several passes & calling it good.

So that being said, I did the sharpie trick from this thread & applied sharpie squiggles over the 1000 scratches & then went to trizact 1500. This works well, but it does feel like I "might" be taking off a bit more clear than I need to to get rid of the 1000 scratches. This is just based on how many passes it takes to remove the sharpie marks. Any chance the sharpie is leeching into the clear a little?

I just don't want to take off anymore clear than I need too. Makes me nervous enough pushing the envelope with the course initial grits, but boy are these panels coming out FlaaaaAt!


68RT

EDIT: I also tried the dry erase marker as Dennis mentioned in #15, The problem with the dry erase is it comes off with the squeegee & leaves a waxy residue that does't sand off very easy. So it almost seems wrse than the sharpie in some aspects.

68ragtop
07-18-2016, 02:31 PM
Not sure if any of you are still subscribed to the thread, but thought I would update.

I very nervously tried the sharpie method after trying it successfully several times on several test panels. I have to tell you as of right now I really like it far better than any other method of color sanding in grit succession. I also really like being able to put marks on the leading edges so I know if I get into them too much. very helpful reference.

Once I had my initial 600 grit "light" sanding finished, I sharpied the whole panel. Then I took those scratches out with 1000. under close inspection I could see the black lines in the lower sand lines. So it was working. As soon as all the lines where removed, I went too 1500, then 3000. It absolutely helped eliminate the lower grit scratches by letting me visually see where I was sanding enough & kept me from over sanding (something very important when starting with 600.) :)
I really don't believe it penetrates into the clear, at least not on my panels it didn't. Maybe on some clears it could be different so if you try it, do some small areas first to be sure.

Now there is one flaw that I realized with this method. For some reason Trizact paper does not sand the sharpie marks very well. Not sure why, maybe its a bit waxy? Not sure but when I went 1500 to 3000 trizact the marks appeared to be sanding off normal, but actually the unmarked clear was going down just a fuzz quicker. So, after I polished I could actually see some of the swoops of the pen strokes. there was no ink color, but no question I could just make out some of the marks in the right reflection of light. At first I panicked & thought I ruined the panel. But, I soon realized what was happening. it was actually a slightly elevated surface. When I went over those marks with 2500 & a soft block they were gone quickly. Whew, that was a relief!

So, if you try this method & plan to go to 3000 trizact before polishing, don't use the sharpie in that step. If you use 2500 paper & a sanding block, its a non-issue. your clear will stay nice & flat.

Only problem I am having now is getting all my final sanding marks out. Even the 2500 marks don't want to come out easily (I'll make another post about that some day) I guess that's the downside of color sanding panels that have been sitting for months. :)

68ragtop
07-18-2016, 02:44 PM
Just to add, One of the things I don't like about the trizact disks is they are so soft they seem to follow the contours of the panel.
I think they are great for a fast good looking driver quality production paint job, But I am finding the hand blocking is still a better overall final result. I think this is true with, or without the interface pad. It might be a coincidence, but the disks don't seem to sand as well without the interface pad either. Not sure why, but that's what I have been finding.
could be a more uniform pressure. Not sure on that......

Len
07-18-2016, 03:08 PM
Just to add, One of the things I don't like about the trizact disks is they are so soft they seem to follow the contours of the panel.
I think they are great for a fast good looking driver quality production paint job, But I am finding the hand blocking is still a better overall final result. I think this is true with, or without the interface pad. It might be a coincidence, but the disks don't seem to sand as well without the interface pad either. Not sure why, but that's what I have been finding.
could be a more uniform pressure. Not sure on that......

The Trizact 1500 disks don't have the foam pad that the finer disks have and can be used with or without the interface pad. Without the interface pad the 1500s can be mounted directly on the sanding pad and not be as soft. Once the panels are sanded flat then the finer/softer pads can be used to remove the 1500 scratches without leaving surface variations.

68ragtop
07-18-2016, 03:55 PM
The Trizact 1500 disks don't have the foam pad that the finer disks have and can be used with or without the interface pad. Without the interface pad the 1500s can be mounted directly on the sanding pad and not be as soft. Once the panels are sanded flat then the finer/softer pads can be used to remove the 1500 scratches without leaving surface variations.

I didn't use the pad for the 1500, just the film/disk. I tried the 3000 without the interface & wouldn't sand as well. Could be from uneven pressure of a coincidence. I really don't like the pad. I guess the big thing I wanted say though is the 3000 doesn't remove sharpie lines very well. Since my post above, I have just been using my blocks & paper & its turning out great. just a lot more time consuming than the trizact disks.

Do you guys now of a good line of wet/dry paper in 3000 grit? I believe 3M only makes 2500 & I have that now. I can get the 2500 grits out, but it takes a couple passes. Im using this compound & a wool pad.

18751

Len
07-18-2016, 08:23 PM
I didn't use the pad for the 1500, just the film/disk. I tried the 3000 without the interface & wouldn't sand as well. Could be from uneven pressure of a coincidence. I really don't like the pad. I guess the big thing I wanted say though is the 3000 doesn't remove sharpie lines very well. Since my post above, I have just been using my blocks & paper & its turning out great. just a lot more time consuming than the trizact disks.

Do you guys now of a good line of wet/dry paper in 3000 grit? I believe 3M only makes 2500 & I have that now. I can get the 2500 grits out, but it takes a couple passes. Im using this compound & a wool pad.



Here is Meguires 3000 grit....

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tnmgls3025.png (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=MGL-S3025&Category_Code=M3)

68ragtop
07-20-2016, 07:06 AM
Thought I would add some more info to this thread as I progress on the GTO Restoration.

The sharpie marks are very water resistant. So what happens is it changes the way the paper sands the marks away. Its not that there is a thickness to the marks, but rather the ability for them to sand away the same as the clear coat. This is a non issue with grits under 1500, but as you get into the higher grits its a problem. Even with a combo hard block 2500 grit will sand uneven over the marks. Sounds crazy but its true. If you stop sanding right when the marks are gone, you will see very, very subtle raises in the clear where the marks where. If you continue to sand one the marks are gone, the clear will go flat again.

Again, Im talking really small, but if you look hard in the right shop lights you can see it.

I have a few other thoughts, but I'll add them later with a few picts.