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junk
08-26-2014, 08:05 AM
So on friday night I painted a boat. Sunday I started polishing it. I use an orange sure finish pad with Wizards Mystic cut. I used some 1200 wet on a block to remove dust heads in the paint and do a little flattening. Then I switched to 1500 grit Trizact followed by 3000 grit trizact. Once buffed out I use a clean and dry micro fiber cloth to remove the buffing residue. Now I've got the boat up to a nice shine after sanding everything looks good. But when I look at the boat in certain lights I can see very slight scratches. Now these don't appear to be 1200 grit sand paper scratches. I've seen them before. They also aren't aren't a tight curl like the DA would leave. They also don't appear to be a similar arc that the buffer would leave. Could these be from the micro fiber rags? I can't see them before the buffing compound is wiped off.

The short question is. After buffing a car is it typically to see some slight marks here and there indicating the surface has been polished? It can never be polished up and completely scratch free can it?

Sorry but I wasn't able to get any decent pictures showing this.

Thanks
Jeremy

Len
08-26-2014, 09:32 AM
So on friday night I painted a boat. Sunday I started polishing it. I use an orange sure finish pad with Wizards Mystic cut. I used some 1200 wet on a block to remove dust heads in the paint and do a little flattening. Then I switched to 1500 grit Trizact followed by 3000 grit trizact. Once buffed out I use a clean and dry micro fiber cloth to remove the buffing residue. Now I've got the boat up to a nice shine after sanding everything looks good. But when I look at the boat in certain lights I can see very slight scratches. Now these don't appear to be 1200 grit sand paper scratches. I've seen them before. They also aren't aren't a tight curl like the DA would leave. They also don't appear to be a similar arc that the buffer would leave. Could these be from the micro fiber rags? I can't see them before the buffing compound is wiped off.

The short question is. After buffing a car is it typically to see some slight marks here and there indicating the surface has been polished? It can never be polished up and completely scratch free can it?

Sorry but I wasn't able to get any decent pictures showing this.

Thanks
Jeremy

Removing all signs of sanding and polishing can be done but it usually takes an additional machine. A "forced (or locked) rotation" polisher is what is normally used. This is an orbital buffer that is locked so that it doesn't random orbit. The Makita BO6040 is the machine most detailers use. I don't carry this machine but I can tell you that it usually runs between $300 and $400.

Without purchasing additional equipment you can probably apply a finish coating that can make these very fine scratches disappear.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/wiz01224.png
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=WIZ01214&Category_Code=M3)

Henry
08-26-2014, 10:32 AM
So on friday night I painted a boat. Sunday I started polishing it. I use an orange sure finish pad with Wizards Mystic cut. I used some 1200 wet on a block to remove dust heads in the paint and do a little flattening. Then I switched to 1500 grit Trizact followed by 3000 grit trizact. Once buffed out I use a clean and dry micro fiber cloth to remove the buffing residue. Now I've got the boat up to a nice shine after sanding everything looks good. But when I look at the boat in certain lights I can see very slight scratches. Now these don't appear to be 1200 grit sand paper scratches. I've seen them before. They also aren't aren't a tight curl like the DA would leave. They also don't appear to be a similar arc that the buffer would leave. Could these be from the micro fiber rags? I can't see them before the buffing compound is wiped off.

The short question is. After buffing a car is it typically to see some slight marks here and there indicating the surface has been polished? It can never be polished up and completely scratch free can it? YES IT CAN

Sorry but I wasn't able to get any decent pictures showing this.

Thanks
Jeremy

It's a real pain when something goes wrong in the detailing phase. Myself, I try to think back to the flawless black sand/buff I've done as well as the ones giving me a hard time. So, to answer your question, YES IT CAN.

We've followed some of your projects on this forum and you never complained about this before. I doubt very seriously that the microfiber towell would cause scratches, although I make sure to cut the tags off. Maybe some of what you see was in the substrate long before you touched the boat.

Look at some of your other work like your truck and see if you notice the same type scratch. Trace your steps backwards. Good luck.

Henry

nova
08-26-2014, 11:00 AM
The short question is. After buffing a car is it typically to see some slight marks here and there indicating the surface has been polished? It can never be polished up and completely scratch free can it?


Thanks
Jeremy

Short answer is no...I paint/polish lots of Black ( B/C ) and use only my best MF towels to clean polish residue and make sure to fold them in such a way to avoid any edges...so in my experience a MF towel can leave a scratch. However any scratch left from a towel will be easy to remove with a quick polish...I use my PC7424XP for final polish..works for me.

junk
08-26-2014, 01:15 PM
My buffer is just a rotational buffer. Someday i would like to buy a locked rotation buffer like the Makita Len mentioned.

Looks like I'm for another night of polishing. I did pickup a black 3M polishing pad and tried it out a little last night. I can't say it made much difference, but it was late and I probably didn't give it a good try.

I think these scratches are from the polishing process, but could easily be wrong. I don't remember seeing them before I buffed. I also can't say i've noticed them in my pickup. I really thought the scratches seemed like from the wipe off process after buffing, but I need to do some more thinking.

When you guys are done buffing is there a film still on the panel from the buffer? I normally have one left that I wipe off.

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys. I know it's hard to diagnose without pictures, but lots of food for thought here.

Henry
08-26-2014, 02:32 PM
My buffer is just a rotational buffer. Someday i would like to buy a locked rotation buffer like the Makita Len mentioned.

Looks like I'm for another night of polishing. I did pickup a black 3M polishing pad and tried it out a little last night. I can't say it made much difference, but it was late and I probably didn't give it a good try.

I think these scratches are from the polishing process, but could easily be wrong. I don't remember seeing them before I buffed. I also can't say i've noticed them in my pickup. I really thought the scratches seemed like from the wipe off process after buffing, but I need to do some more thinking.

When you guys are done buffing is there a film still on the panel from the buffer? I normally have one left that I wipe off.

Thanks for the help and suggestions guys. I know it's hard to diagnose without pictures, but lots of food for thought here.

YES there is some residue from the buffer. That's where the MF comes in. Fold it one way to get the loose dust and crap off then turn it and do a good wipe. I have NEVER, EVER had MF put any scratch in finished/buffed paint. It "MAY" pick up a piece of polish and smear that around making it look like a scratch.

JUNK: you DID post pictures. You posted them of your truck which, to me, looks like you are capable of a perfect cut/buff. So, if you employ what you did on your truck to this boat you are good to go. You might not be doing enough buffing at the compound stage thus making your further finishing stages not look like a deep gloss.

Henry

junk
08-26-2014, 03:22 PM
Thanks Henry for the comments on the pickup parts I did. I thought they looked good also. I'm just using the wizards mystic cut and an orange pad for my polishing. So i've only really got one step. I do have a black 3m polishing pad if that would be a logical next step.

Here are a couple pictures of the boat after buffed. The "scratches" aren't visible at this angle. I'll see if I can get a picture tonight of them. I think it looks great in the pictures.
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Len
08-26-2014, 08:35 PM
The paint does look a little rough in the pictures. Was it "hard" when you polished it?

junk
08-26-2014, 09:34 PM
What do you mean "hard"? Was it cured? Or did it polish hard? It had cured for 36 hours at around 70 degrees before I started buffing on it.

Len
08-26-2014, 09:41 PM
What do you mean "hard"? Was it cured? Or did it polish hard? It had cured for 36 hours at around 70 degrees before I started buffing on it.

I'm sorry, I think I'm looking at the reflection of the ceiling and not problems on the paint. If you had a bar of light like a florescent bulb reflecting on the paint without showing the ceiling texture I might be able to see the finish better.

junk
08-26-2014, 10:45 PM
I got some pictures of the scratches I think. The picture with the incandescent bulbs shows the "scratches" kind of. The surface looks rough like sand paper with the incandescent bulbs. The other picture is with just my fluorescent light on. I thought that gave a better picture of the image. I gotta get rid of the incandescent fixtures and put some fluorescents in.

What I'm wondering now is three things. Do I need to run back over it with the trizact because I left some 1200 and 1500 grit scratch in? Or by chance do I have scratches from the primer showing. I blocked out the primer in 400 wet, but did shoot sealer so I was thinking the sealer would eliminate the blocking scratches. Could be wrong. 3rd do I just need to polish more and get the scratch out.

The owner isn't going to pick the boat up until next week so i'm going to let it cure out a few more days and then go back at it.

Also has anyone used the the wizards shine master? It states it can be used on a freshly painted surface. I haven't tried it yet, but have a bottle. This is more of a side question than anything.

Thanks again for the insight!


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Skalabala
08-27-2014, 01:58 AM
If the paint was not cured and you sand and buff, then you have a big problem :(
What paint did you use bud?

Len
08-27-2014, 06:25 AM
Ok, I don't see any problems on the picture with the florescent light but on the other picture I see scratches to the right of the bulb's reflection. Those scratches look like deeper scratches that weren't removed by finer sand paper. If this is the case it's not unusual, you sand with a more coarse grit to remove the peel then a finer grit to remove the more coarse scratches but, since you can't see the initial sanding scratches, you can easily not sand enough to remove them. Sand a small area again using the finer grit then polish to see if that solves the problem.

junk
08-27-2014, 08:14 AM
Skalaba - it should have been cured enough to sand on. I'm using Nason 498 clear. I'm thinking about trying the Urekem MS clear.

Len - I think your spot on. This weekend I'll try hitting it with 3000 again and see if it polishes up better. I'm also picking up some 5000 grit to try out.

Thanks again guys for the help!

junk
08-31-2014, 10:50 PM
Here is the boat in the sunlight. I'm pretty good with it.

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Henry
09-01-2014, 12:01 PM
Hey, Junkman, I told you it would come out good based on all your other projects. Sure looks good from here. Tell the customer he now needs a matching trailer, mag wheels and whitewalls! Good job.

Henry

junk
09-01-2014, 01:46 PM
Henry Thanks!!! It did turn our pretty good. I was very pleased once I rolled it outside. The trailer definitely looks pretty rough now.

I'm anxious for the owner to see it. I think he'll be pleased.

Skalabala
09-02-2014, 02:15 AM
I think the scratches in the beginning was from the clear that was not cured.
If I sand and polish clear that only stood 3 days then there will be scratches left after polish :(

Is that a Ferrari boat? :goof: