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HEMI
11-24-2013, 09:06 PM
I need some advice from the experts in paint finish. I recently purchased a used car and I noticed a haze look in the paint about half way up on one sail panel. The finish on the whole sail panel has a nice shine and looks good from a 90 degree angle. Out in direct sunlight from a 45 degree angle the haze is visible. Up close the haze area has a texture in the clear and on the other side of this "line" it looks like rest of the paint finish, shiny with typical factory peal. Kind of reminds me of dieback on the hazy side of this "line". Could this be a clear coat blend after a spot repair? I thought about polishing with a fine cut polish and a finishing pad. Would this be risky if this was a clear blend? I'm thinking I should play it safe and just glaze the panel, keep it waxed, and wait for signs of delamination?

Len
11-24-2013, 09:21 PM
It sounds like the panel was repaired then painted with a less expensive paint product. Yes, it would be a good idea to polish and wax that paint to bring back the shine and help preserve the problem area. Use fine polish on a soft, damp cloth and go gentle at first to make sure you're going to get the result you want. You could also use a buffer but, if you're not experienced, you could damage an inexpensive or soft finish quite easily.

HEMI
11-24-2013, 10:40 PM
Thanks Len! I thought this looked like a spot repair and a clear coat blend. Would the clear coat blender sprayed on the blend make it look this way? Would you recommend a microfiber or cotton cloth? Or maybe a foam hand applicator pad? I do have experience using my DA and Megs and CC pads. What polish would be best? Megs 205 or Wizzard product? I've heard so much about "breaking back" a blend I'm alittle paranoid!!

Len
11-25-2013, 08:07 AM
Thanks Len! I thought this looked like a spot repair and a clear coat blend. Would the clear coat blender sprayed on the blend make it look this way? Would you recommend a microfiber or cotton cloth? Or maybe a foam hand applicator pad? I do have experience using my DA and Megs and CC pads. What polish would be best? Megs 205 or Wizzard product? I've heard so much about "breaking back" a blend I'm alittle paranoid!!

I'm not familiar with 205 but Mystic Cut or Sure Finish polish will do a good job without being too aggressive. I would use a dampened soft white cotton cloth to do the polishing, a foam applicator to apply the wax and a microfiber cloth to remove the wax. A DA isn't a very good tool for this application.

MARTINSR
11-25-2013, 09:07 AM
My advice is to wax it, sure, it wouldn't hurt. But then FORGET about it. Drive the car, enjoy it and forget about that little flaw. Wax it once in a while to protect the blend, but that's it. No one else sees it, they see the car overall, is it nice? That is how people see it, as a nice car, they aren't seeing stuff like that. Drive it, enjoy it, if it fails down the road (often open blends end up failing) you will have it painted properly (or do it yourself). Until then, enjoy the car.

Brian

Phil V
11-25-2013, 10:12 AM
I agree with Brian, Polish it LIGHTLY with a fine compound, wax it and let it go. You could very easily be opening up a can of worms if you get too aggressive with that sail panel blend. The clear in that blend is VERY thin and if you cut through that clear into the the basecoat then it's going to look a LOT worse than it does now. Some things are better left alone or approach that blend like you were walking on egg shells because that blend could get a lot worse very fast if you cut through that very thin clear coat blend.

MARTINSR
11-25-2013, 10:28 AM
I agree with Brian, Polish it LIGHTLY with a fine compound, wax it and let it go. You could very easily be opening up a can of worms if you get too aggressive with that sail panel blend. The clear in that blend is VERY thin and if you cut through that clear into the the basecoat then it's going to look a LOT worse than it does now. Some things are better left alone or approach that blend like you were walking on egg shells because that blend could get a lot worse very fast if you cut through that very thin clear coat blend.

Let me clarify what "the clear is VERY thin" means. The clear on the quarter was likely sprayed in two or three coats. So you have let's say three coats, at the blend it goes from there to zero coats in about six inches. So it isn't "VERY" thin, it actually doesn't exist at one point, so just a little back from that it is VERY, VERY, VERY thin, as in literally next to nothing. That is how thin we are talking. So thin that rubbing it with a bare finger goes thru, that is how thin it is there.

Need we say simply put wax over it to protect it and leave it alone?

Brian

HEMI
11-25-2013, 12:36 PM
Thanks everyone! It looks like a little Megs #7 and wax and I'm done. I'll wait to cut and polish the new clear after this sail panel, quarter panel, and roof aperture is painted when the blend fails. Just like an old country song, "It's just a matter of time"! Be interesting to see how long it does last being religious keeping a good coat of wax on it.

Henry
11-25-2013, 12:51 PM
I need some advice from the experts in paint finish. I recently purchased a used car and I noticed a haze look in the paint about half way up on one sail panel. The finish on the whole sail panel has a nice shine and looks good from a 90 degree angle. Out in direct sunlight from a 45 degree angle the haze is visible. Up close the haze area has a texture in the clear and on the other side of this "line" it looks like rest of the paint finish, shiny with typical factory peal. Kind of reminds me of dieback on the hazy side of this "line". Could this be a clear coat blend after a spot repair? I thought about polishing with a fine cut polish and a finishing pad. Would this be risky if this was a clear blend? I'm thinking I should play it safe and just glaze the panel, keep it waxed, and wait for signs of delamination?

Gotta ask what type and color car? I like to visualize what we talk about.

I agree with Brian and Phil to leave the paint alone is best. I would try a 'good' glaze on half of the area by hand (tape the other half) just to see if you get any benefit and be sure to use microfiber towels.

Ya know, if this was and expensive car from a franchise dealer, with a good bodyshop, bought less that 30 days ago, I might just go back and show it to them. You never know, they may help you. Most likely not but worth a try. I've seen many dealers buy newer cars from big CLEAN auctions because they had a customer ready to buy. The car comes in with a scratch and the dealer hires one of those Minute Auto body guys who works off the back of his truck to make the area look good again just to make the sale. Keep us posted and WELCOME to this site.

Henry

HEMI
11-25-2013, 01:54 PM
Thanks Henry! It's a low mileage 2012 Challenger R/T in hemi orange pearl. I got it from a dealership about six months ago. It's in very good condition, but I missed the blend when I bought it on a cloudy day my fault. I've wanted this car since Dodge brought it back in 2008. It reminds me of my misspent youth! I take a lot of pride in my vehicles and have always done my own detailing over the years. I have an old Porter Cable DA and DeWalt rotary. Most of my experience in paint correction is with single stage. I've never had to do much correction with my bc/cc vehicles, which is good because I've never attempted to paint anything unless I could shoot lacquer!

Len
11-25-2013, 01:59 PM
Thanks Henry! It's a low mileage 2012 Challenger R/T in hemi orange pearl. I got it from a dealership about six months ago. It's in very good condition, but I missed the blend when I bought it on a cloudy day my fault. I've wanted this car since Dodge brought it back in 2008. It reminds me of my misspent youth! I take a lot of pride in my vehicles and have always done my own detailing over the years. I have an old Porter Cable DA and DeWalt rotary. Most of my experience in paint correction is with single stage. I've never had to do much correction with my bc/cc vehicles, which is good because I've never attempted to paint anything unless I could shoot lacquer!

The other guys are right that the clear feathers into the original paint job but it's usually just clear and if color was applied it's usually back further under the clear. I definitely wouldn't try using a machine on it but with a light touch and the right polish it should be no problem bringing up a gloss on dull clear even at the edge of the blend. Just be sure not to be too aggressive when you polish, all you want to do is bring up a shine NOT remove too much material.

MARTINSR
11-25-2013, 02:06 PM
The other guys are right that the clear feathers into the original paint job but it's usually just clear and if color was applied it's usually back further under the clear. I definitely wouldn't try using a machine on it but with a light touch and the right polish it should be no problem bringing up a gloss on dull clear even at the edge of the blend. Just be sure not to be too aggressive when you polish, all you want to do is bring up a shine NOT remove too much material.

What a damn shame that it wasn't done properly! You clear the quarter and the roof rail for goodness sakes. We wouldn't fix a chip in the paint on that quarter without blending out the color and clearing the entire quarter and roof rail! This is standard procedure in the industry no insurance company would gripe, you get paid more, why in the world wouldn't this be done?

Brian

Len
11-25-2013, 04:09 PM
What a damn shame that it wasn't done properly! You clear the quarter and the roof rail for goodness sakes. We wouldn't fix a chip in the paint on that quarter without blending out the color and clearing the entire quarter and roof rail! This is standard procedure in the industry no insurance company would gripe, you get paid more, why in the world wouldn't this be done?

Brian

I'm guessing that it probably looked fine right after it was finished but died as the time passed because they used cheap materials.

Back when I was a kid and did a lot of dealer work we had a definition of what the dealers demanded. They way the want their work is "yesterday, free and perfect" and as long as it lasted until the customer's check cleared they were happy.

HEMI
11-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Could it look this way if rattle can blender was sprayed outside of the "wet" blend area on dry factory clear? I only ask because another small area on the sail panel has this same texture in the clear that is located higher and left of the blend line along the quarter window weatherseal with smooth finish in between.
I'm trying to find out who the original owner was and ask if it was spot repaired when they still owned it and if it was why was it done this way verses clearing the whole quarter/roof.

MARTINSR
11-25-2013, 04:56 PM
Could it look this way if rattle can blender was sprayed outside of the "wet" blend area on dry factory clear? I only ask because another small area on the sail panel has this same texture in the clear that is located higher and left of the blend line along the quarter window weatherseal with smooth finish in between.
I'm trying to find out who the original owner was and ask if it was spot repaired when they still owned it and if it was why was it done this way verses clearing the whole quarter/roof.

You don't have to clear the roof, that is the killer. On late model cars most everyone of them including this one there is a "roof rail" that runs over the doors that is separated from the roof by a moulding. You remove the moulding and spray just the rail and the quarter, re-install the moulding and it looks like it was done at the factory.

Brian

style
11-26-2013, 01:53 AM
What a damn shame that it wasn't done properly! You clear the quarter and the roof rail for goodness sakes. We wouldn't fix a chip in the paint on that quarter without blending out the color and clearing the entire quarter and roof rail! This is standard procedure in the industry no insurance company would gripe, you get paid more, why in the world wouldn't this be done?

Brian

simple customer didn't pay for it not to long ago I blended the first foot of a hood on a 2013 challenger with 2 miles on it that was transport damage.. it is sad but happens all the time, all in the name of saving a buck..
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n143/marce37/ObamaDollar_zps974d43c1.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/marce37/media/ObamaDollar_zps974d43c1.jpg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_17_zpsce403ff1.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_17_zpsce403ff1.jpg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_16_zps4f1053ec.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_16_zps4f1053ec.jpg.html)

transport damaged these,
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_19_zpsb6ec5a72.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_19_zpsb6ec5a72.jpg.html)

style
11-26-2013, 02:16 AM
crazy stuff people do,
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_15_zps7b09e943.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_15_zps7b09e943.jpg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_22_zps66d8cb03.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_22_zps66d8cb03.jpg.html)

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu214/larson4123/temp_12_zps5185a3f8.jpg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/larson4123/media/temp_12_zps5185a3f8.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n143/marce37/temp_23_zps0e4b3d2e.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/marce37/media/temp_23_zps0e4b3d2e.jpg.html)

couldn't tell it was ever touched in the sun not to mention it was with 9 others mixed in with various colors..

MARTINSR
11-26-2013, 09:14 AM
I would put a crisp $100 bill on the line that I could prep that hood and paint it properly faster than doing it as you did. It makes no sense.

Brian

Phil V
11-26-2013, 07:26 PM
I agree, Brian. Under no circumstances would I clearcoat blend a hood. I have seen some bodymen/painters blend just out of spite because of an insurance co. estimate. Those are the kind of people who nit pick over pennies while the dollars sail right over their heads. Either I do the job right or I don't do it at all.

HEMI
11-26-2013, 07:34 PM
Gotta ask what type and color car? I like to visualize what we talk about.

I agree with Brian and Phil to leave the paint alone is best. I would try a 'good' glaze on half of the area by hand (tape the other half) just to see if you get any benefit and be sure to use microfiber towels.

Ya know, if this was and expensive car from a franchise dealer, with a good bodyshop, bought less that 30 days ago, I might just go back and show it to them. You never know, they may help you. Most likely not but worth a try. I've seen many dealers buy newer cars from big CLEAN auctions because they had a customer ready to buy. The car comes in with a scratch and the dealer hires one of those Minute Auto body guys who works off the back of his truck to make the area look good again just to make the sale. Keep us posted and WELCOME to this site.

Henry

What would be a "good" glaze for this application be? Good ole 3M? I used to really like the old pink Fill-N-Glaze that isn't made anymore. I've heard good things about Prima Amigo and Glossworkz. I'm still wondering if the texture in the finish close to the repair area was caused by rattle can blender sprayed around the blend area on the dry original finish. Possible??? Thank You!!!!!!

style
11-26-2013, 08:40 PM
I would put a crisp $100 bill on the line that I could prep that hood and paint it properly faster than doing it as you did. It makes no sense.

Brian

lol,probably could but it looked good enough to be passed over by a dealer releasing the transport from any obligation for diminished value etc..

hey all the edges were still smooth on the back of the hood by the cowl and the sides were perfect still an had no sanding residue in any cracks.. under the shop lights you have to really look for it and outside it was not noticeable at all..

it was being shipped to a rental car company in fleet anyways, something shows down the road its those damn customers that did it, somebodys bound to rent it longer then a week.. id be looking at that guy for this messed up repair he looks suspicious to me..

nova
11-26-2013, 08:47 PM
Great work, you should be proud of that.

MARTINSR
11-26-2013, 09:29 PM
I agree, Brian. Under no circumstances would I clearcoat blend a hood. I have seen some bodymen/painters blend just out of spite because of an insurance co. estimate. Those are the kind of people who nit pick over pennies while the dollars sail right over their heads. Either I do the job right or I don't do it at all.

The sad part is people say "That is what the insurance company wants to do" then they screw the customer. I am sorry, you get out of the insurance company what it takes to do the job right or you send it down the road! We do it every day, trail fit the AM part, it doesn't fit (of course we don't try real hard either) and they come out and look at it, pay us to trail fit it, and ok an OEM part. They want us to replace only a few of the suspension components that we have on the supplement, I say to them very nicely, "Just as long as you understand we aren't going to make the mistake of leaving overlap time, and we will charge for every alignment, no matter how many it takes." A lot of shops will try those few parts on, when it doesn't work they add the next parts, well in the estimating system, it doesn't know that you didn't put all the parts on at one time! So if you change the lower control arm it gives you say, 1.0. You then change the knuckle after an alignment the system includes the overlap and gives you .5. When I do it, and I make it clear to them, there is no overlap so the knuckle after doing a lower control arm, the knuckle is the full 1.0 as if it was all that was being changed, which of course IS all you are changing because you have already installed the new control arm and put it all back together! When you say this the insurance adjuster will often have the color drain from his face. So we put the control arm on, we align it (even if we KNOW it will fail, they dumb bastards want it, so they get it). They are charged the 1.0 to install the control arm, and the alignment (we have the alignment rack in the shop). When it fails, they come back out and give us the knuckle we asked for in the beginning. They pay the full rate to install it, and another alignment! When you make it clear to them at the get go they sometimes will give in and let you change them both. But as I say with a smile "We make money changing parts and doing alignments, if you want to do twenty on this one car, we are fine with that." LOL

Other shops say "That's what the insurance company wants" and give the headache to the customer, our job is to take that headache for OUR customer. Besides, it's free entertainment. You don't have to buy a ticket or drive out of town or get dressed up, they come and perform for you right there in the shop.:D

Brian

style
11-27-2013, 02:58 AM
The sad part is people say "That is what the insurance company wants to do" then they screw the customer. I am sorry, you get out of the insurance company what it takes to do the job right or you send it down the road! We do it every day, trail fit the AM part, it doesn't fit (of course we don't try real hard either) and they come out and look at it, pay us to trail fit it, and ok an OEM part. They want us to replace only a few of the suspension components that we have on the supplement, I say to them very nicely, "Just as long as you understand we aren't going to make the mistake of leaving overlap time, and we will charge for every alignment, no matter how many it takes." A lot of shops will try those few parts on, when it doesn't work they add the next parts, well in the estimating system, it doesn't know that you didn't put all the parts on at one time! So if you change the lower control arm it gives you say, 1.0. You then change the knuckle after an alignment the system includes the overlap and gives you .5. When I do it, and I make it clear to them, there is no overlap so the knuckle after doing a lower control arm, the knuckle is the full 1.0 as if it was all that was being changed, which of course IS all you are changing because you have already installed the new control arm and put it all back together! When you say this the insurance adjuster will often have the color drain from his face. So we put the control arm on, we align it (even if we KNOW it will fail, they dumb bastards want it, so they get it). They are charged the 1.0 to install the control arm, and the alignment (we have the alignment rack in the shop). When it fails, they come back out and give us the knuckle we asked for in the beginning. They pay the full rate to install it, and another alignment! When you make it clear to them at the get go they sometimes will give in and let you change them both. But as I say with a smile "We make money changing parts and doing alignments, if you want to do twenty on this one car, we are fine with that." LOL

Other shops say "That's what the insurance company wants" and give the headache to the customer, our job is to take that headache for OUR customer. Besides, it's free entertainment. You don't have to buy a ticket or drive out of town or get dressed up, they come and perform for you right there in the shop.:D

Brian

sounds all nice and neat in your neck of the woods, down here you get what you pay for, the customer is never right, and if you don't like it sue me ill just file 3,4,5 continuations in court and make you take time off work for it I have nothing better to do with my time..

had a guy question my work the other day "sir are you sure that's supposed to be that way?" my reply was don't make me call immigration on you he started yelling some crap when I said I don't speak Mexican and threw him his keys..

I am so tired of this business, thats why I shut down my shop but mobile is the same crap im down to finishing one more car by next week and im done with painting cars I just hate my customers, they are all idiots and you cant compete to do things right when the assholes down the street charge $35 a side (yes whole side)to spray a 2010 Altima with a key mark..

MARTINSR
11-27-2013, 09:33 AM
sounds all nice and neat in your neck of the woods, down here you get what you pay for, the customer is never right, and if you don't like it sue me ill just file 3,4,5 continuations in court and make you take time off work for it I have nothing better to do with my time..

had a guy question my work the other day "sir are you sure that's supposed to be that way?" my reply was don't make me call immigration on you he started yelling some crap when I said I don't speak Mexican and threw him his keys..

I am so tired of this business, thats why I shut down my shop but mobile is the same crap im down to finishing one more car by next week and im done with painting cars I just hate my customers, they are all idiots and you cant compete to do things right when the assholes down the street charge $35 a side (yes whole side)to spray a 2010 Altima with a key mark..


Just remember my first rule in dealing with the public. "When you deal with the public there are two rules you must remember. 1. The public is a bunch of morons. 2. You and I are one of them.

Brian