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View Full Version : CLAUSEN's vs Epoxy Primer...



Carrameow
07-28-2006, 04:09 PM
I got waylaid on the way to the Epoxy Primer Store to buy Epoxy Primer. Somehow I came home with Clausen's Primer instead for my 85 Mercedes project. Clausen's is the supposed to be pretty good and I'm sure it is, its just that I wanted to follow the SPRAY101 DVD to the letter.

Can anyone reassure me in my belief I should have got Epoxy Primer instead?

Chris L
07-28-2006, 09:36 PM
It just depends on which clausens primer you have and what your trying to accomplish.The only Claussens im familair with is a 86% solids polyester primer that is super thick and i love it,BUT,you dont use it the same as epoxy.

Len
07-28-2006, 10:13 PM
I got waylaid on the way to the Epoxy Primer Store to buy Epoxy Primer. Somehow I came home with Clausen's Primer instead for my 85 Mercedes project. Clausen's is the supposed to be pretty good and I'm sure it is, its just that I wanted to follow the SPRAY101 DVD to the letter.

Can anyone reassure me in my belief I should have got Epoxy Primer instead?

Read the technical info for the products you intend on using so that you can see if they are made to do the things that you need done. I'm not familiar with Clausen's products but if they are made to go "directly on the metal" and/or fill in preparation for paint and that's what you need then just use them properly to get the job done.

Warren
07-29-2006, 12:26 AM
Clausen you will see that they do almost everthing and even cure world peace. Not doubting the quality the sheets are impressive.

They have told me with one or two of their primers all you have to do is spray block a few times then go right to base, there are additives in one or two for corrosion and other stuff.

I never talked to shops up here but if the things they said were true then it would save all kinds of time and money, I just don't trust stuff till I hear that from someone but I do know it is on some very high end show cars for blocking the cars straight.

Would be nice to have someone out there speak up who uses this stuff at the level they say you can, no need for any other primers do it all with one polyester product if it really does work. I found the stuff stuck like a monster to my chrome smooth spray gun handle so that was impressive but just feel a bit nervous about only using that then going to base from there.

The product info sheets are interesting if you get a chance take a look at them. I think they have been around for a long time so must be somthing there.

Warren

Chris L
07-29-2006, 03:58 PM
I said i used it...are you wanting some "known" professional's opinion? I am doing a 71 vette in it and it is exactly what the can says.i cant vouch for the corrosion resistant part,but the other is dead on.So far i have had no shrinkage in the parts i painted.It sands easy,paintable etc.The one i use is All-u-need

Roch_Greg
07-29-2006, 04:41 PM
I hate when that happens, I do my usual meticulous research and line up the products/materals I want to buy. Get to the place where I want to make my purchase only to be presented with a different reccommendation. Ah well such is life.

Looking at the application guide for All-U-Need (http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/automotive-refinishes/ClausenHelp.html)it does look like a very interesting product (as others have mentioned, if it lives up to the hype)

I do however see a couple of things I don't like.

1) No other metal cleaner/conditioner or rust treatment can be used underneath.

So I'm wondering what do you use to clean the metal after blasting or sanding?

What would you do for panels/parts where you did not cut the rust out but blasted or wire wheeled?

2) First coat needs to flash for 20 mins.

That's a long time for setting up esp. when you consider the Pot life of the activated product is only 30 mins @ 70F ambient air temps


All in all it's a very interesting product. Would replace the Epoxy then High Build primer-filler or sealer routine.

Warren
07-29-2006, 05:54 PM
dont hate when that happens.

I have used it and had one instance where my top coat did not stick as well as it shouid but then I found out you are supposed to sand just before you top coat so who knows.

Now from my thoughts on it and again it is on some of the very top show cars what I wonder is if you grind and car down and that is all you use as they claim that there is some guy here who has used it on 3 or 400 cars and chimes in and says so with conviction that it is okay.

The show cars used it to straighten the body just as you are doing on the vette. I personally am able to make stuff more accurate when I spray polyester than swipe it on, you can direct it and add .008 at a time. I swipe stuff on and then I have to be more of a sculpter and don't do as good of a job. Most of the car guys I know still swipe their filler on.

So dont' think I am knocking the stuff I just would liketo hear about someone who uses it al the time, I have heard that there are shops and yes that is all the use, you know all you need!!!

Warren

CoolasIce
07-29-2006, 06:59 PM
The ALL-YOU-Need also has a "built in " guide coat.
What the heck is that, anyway?
Thanks.

Roch_Greg
07-29-2006, 07:09 PM
Guide coat is something used for sanding fillers and primers. It will show where the low and high spots are when you sand enabling one to acheive a totally flat surface prior to topcoating.

You can buy it from Len or any local jobber.

Carrameow
07-29-2006, 07:13 PM
but I am thinking of going back to Epoxy because the 30 min pot life 20 minute tack coat set up time is a little tuff for a beginner, in that 10 minutes.....Dont laugh but subliminally "CLAUSEN's ALL YOU NEED" sounds like some great cake mix, maybe thats why I got tricked having a sweet tooth

X711
07-29-2006, 08:29 PM
I have tried alot of primers but not clausen.

I was out looking for a all in one product some time ago as the grunt work of
epoxy and then another primer on top of that did not go over too well with
me.

Anyway after some research and a deep technical phone call to the maker I
now use this.

http://www.autobodybrands.com/primers/5425_x2k.html

No point in going back to the other brands as this one makes them redundant !

If you get the opportunity to try it, I fell positive you will be impressed.

It sticks like a mother and sands so easy there is little or no effort, even by hand.

><

Chris L
07-29-2006, 09:35 PM
The ALL-YOU-Need also has a "built in " guide coat.
What the heck is that, anyway?
Thanks.
The dark grey ALL u need drys dark,when you sand it,it is light grey inside,therefor it has a built in guide coat.I also recently repaired some 70 chevy step side fenders.The owner wanted the originals,no rust..but completely dinged,dented,buldged,you name it.By the time i was finished,i had skim coated the whole fenders with filler,leveled with 120...4 coats of all u need...sanded with 120...4 more coats of all u need,then sanded with 320...the first application leveled every imperfection in the filler,the second application just eased my mind on having it perfect.

compositejunky
07-29-2006, 11:09 PM
I've read of alot of people on another discussion forum using the claussen all-u-need poly primer and i hear it works very good.

I don't want to hijack this thread but was wondering the following:

I think i read that there is some type of etch primer mixed in the all-u-need.... well if i use this product, i was planning on spraying on epoxy followed by Claussen over some fiberglass parts that i had done extensive amounts of filler work over, to help with adhesion.

Can i use an etch over epoxy?? Would this product not require the epoxy underneath? The reason i ask is b/c i used some mar-hyde quicksand poly primer over bare metal/ and filler work and in some areas the adhesion was poor. Just worried b/c i don't want to scrape off and re-do it.

Thanks

Roch_Greg
07-30-2006, 05:07 AM
Well you don't want to or need to use etching primer over an Epoxy and from reading the application quide for All-U-Need I don't think it's made for being applied over an Epoxy Primer.

I can only find Quiksand 2K Polyester Primer (which says it's a primer surfacer).

If that's the product you used then it's not made for direct to metal (DTM) applications (as most primer surfacers are not) and you would need something underneath like a etching primer for corrosion protection.

When you read the label on the can what does it say it can be applied to/over?

compositejunky
07-30-2006, 12:37 PM
Thanks for replying. It does says on the tech sheet that it's "self-etching" so thats good to know i can skip the epoxy step.

The quicksand is a polyester primer with the m.e.k.p. hardener. The back of the can says it can be applied directly to bare metal. I know it wasn't dry spray that caused it to have adhesion problems b/c i hammered it on, but not out of control. It was only the bare metal areas that it could be somewhat " scraped" off. I spoke to MARTINSR on here previously about that problem and from what i remember, he said that he usually used epoxy underneath for a bit of insurance or peace of mind to help with the bond. Thanks

chris

fomoco48
01-17-2007, 07:09 AM
I use Clausen (zchrome) Rust Defender and it is like magic. It is one of the best polyester primers on the market (spray mud). It fills like no other just make sure you have a canon to put it on with (I use a hvlp with a 2.3 tip).

Stuff has gotten really expensive. When I started using it the cost was $25 a gallon and now it is $93 a gallon but it still works best.

My 2 cents

AutobodyCAD
01-17-2007, 09:11 AM
Hey, X,

how much does that 5-Star XTREME go for?

warren
01-17-2007, 10:22 AM
I would pay 80.00 canadian for a gallon of the z-Rust stuff ten years ago and last time a few years ago from another supplier it was 80.00.


Warren