Rust under vinyl

[mopar addict]

Hello, I have a rust question. I removed the vinyl top on my challenger. There were some tears and water got under it. The car came from California so the body is rock solid, but I have pitting and some small holes that I'm dealing with. The bigest hole is no bigger then about the size of a pencel.
The rest are smaller then that.

I am planing on having a new vinyl top put on but my consern is what to do with the holes. I'm also having a new head liner put in so I can remove the old one to get access to the under side. I'm going to try and attach a picture of one of the worse spots.

I'm using a DA with 40 grit paper on the top and I have it down to the metal.
but there are some spots that are not as shiny as others. There's this kinda black look in some of it but It's smooth. So I wounder if I should coat the whole top with filler or just fix the pitting and epoxy primer it.

Thanks Tim.

[Len]

If I were doing the repairs to your top I would remove the metal around the holes and replace it with good metal then apply epoxy primer and a moisture resistant filler to level the areas. I would probably prime and paint after leveling the surface so that you have be best moisture protection possible. There is no need to apply filler over the entire top and do that could actually hurt the longevity of the repair.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/US14060.jpg
Moisture Resistent Filler Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=US14060&Category_Code=FM)

If you don't have a welder you could grind the surface clean, countersink the metal around the holes and apply aluminum tape to the repair then apply a moisture resistant filler over the tape and holes. This is not as strong as welding but you don't need a strong repair in that area unless the holes are many. Since your problem came from moisture sitting on the exterior of the metal a tape and filler repair would last longer than it would if the repair had moisture attacking it from the rear but I would still prime and paint it after the body work is finished.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tn3M6930.jpg
Metal Tape Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M6930&Category_Code=FM)

HERE (http://www.autobodystore.com/FillerMatls.htm) is a link to the tape and filler repair process.

[mopar addict]

Now by doing the repair this way will I need anything else? I mean is that fiber glass? I have not picked up a meg welder as of yet. I do have gas and I have welded it patches with that. It's beed a few years ago. I was afraid of burning thru. I have all ready ground the pitting out and wire brushed it.

I tryed to post a pic but I could not figure out how to compress it so it would post.

I have the video spray painting 101 coming. does it show any tips of this kind.

Thanks Tim.

[TimG]

If you have the headliner out anyway,my choice would be to cut the weak metal out around the holes,and glue new metal in from the inside,then bondo/kitty hair/Allmetal the topside.
This would make a longer lasting repair than just plastic,and you really don't care about a read thru line under a vynal top.
Len sells the glue{Fusor}just follow the directions on the package.
Just my opinion,and Good Luck!l

[mopar addict]

So how well does this glue work? Is it very hard to use? And what gage metal should I use? I have never worked with fiber glass is it very hard to work with?
Tim.

[G_T]

I had this problem on my 70 Charger. I drilled/ground out all of the holes and migged 'em shut.

[Roch_Greg]

mopar addict:

All Metal is not fiberglass but a filler made of aluminum. When I use it I usually spread a polyester glaze over it to cover and pinholes and such.

You many find when you pull down the headliner, like on my '85 reagal, that the roof is actually two parts (the outer and inner shells). I know the foward part (part w/no vinyl) is on mine.

That would make it rather hard to get at the repair from the inside.

[TimG]

Glue is incredibly easy to use,and it WORKS!!!!
I've had cars come back w/a rear end hit after I've glued a quarter on,and the stuff doesn't let go!
I've got a driver S10 Blazer I made door bottoms for when I bought it 3 years ago,did nothing fancy for prep work{no sandblast,just ground the worst of it}no bubbles yet,still looks fine.
The beauty of the stuff is that used correctly,NO moisture can get thru to the filler,causing rust,which will make the filler bubble up.
Drawback is,if you look at the repair closely,you'll see the outline of the patch,not a concern under the top.
All you have to do is grind the surfaces where the glue will be used,apply it out of the caulking gun,I like to spread it out w/ a small brush so there is no bare metal showing,and clamp it in place for the required amount of time,on your roof,duct taping to the underside would work.
Do a Google search for Fusor,or Lord adheisives,should be able to find online tech sheets,3M also makes it,try searching 3M Panelbond,I use # 8115
Fiberglass {I'm guessing you mean cloth/mat and resin} isn't hard to work with,just messy.AND ITCHY!!!!
Only trick to it is too little hardner,it won't dry,too much,it either won't dry or gets real brittle.
You can get a 3' by 3' chunk of 18 gauge steel around here for @10 or 15 dollars from a bodyshop jobber,easy to bend,cut w/ snips,etc.
What I do is save old doorskins at work,figuring it has the best corrosion protection the carmaker has to offer,and I can usually find one w/a bend or contour I can work with.
A local "Mom and Pop" small shop would probably let you pick the sheet metal pile for a part you like,for free.
Good Luck!

[Len]

Yes, the panel bonding adhesive is an excellent alternative to welding and I should have recommended it as a way to go. It's especially good for large panels that can warp easily from welding or for folks that don't have a welder. We recommend and sell the Fusor brand because we've found it to be one of the best brands but we can also get 3M brand if you prefer.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/110B_111B_small.jpg
Fusor Metal Bonding Products Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=MB)

[mopar addict]

Hey,it sounds like the glue thing might be the way to go. Now why would everyone say that you could see the outline of the repair? I can get to the underside of the top. I had an ice pick in one fo the small holes and I could feel it at the liner. If it's leveled I don't see why you would see an outline of the repair.

Tim G. when you say: then bondo/kitty hair/Allmetal the topside. Do you mean all or any one of the three?

Thanks for all the great advice so far guys.
And I got my 101 vid today. Thanks Len.

[Len]

There are some bonding materials that will show a "read-thru line" more than others. When a panel is glued into place with the seam running across the face of the panel you can sometimes see a bond line when the temperature increases. This is why it's best not to place a seam where it can be easily seen especially if the surface will be painted a dark color. However you won't see anything if you level the seam under a vinyl top because the read-thru line is very subtle and is usually only seen as a slight distortion in the light reflected off the panel. Fusor advertises there products as having "bond line control" which is an improvement over many other products on the market.

[TimG]

I meant just use your personal preferance for filler,sorry for the confusion.
I usually use Kitty hair for the first pass{short strand fiberglass filler} and cut it w/36 while it is still kinda soft,otherwise,it's like sanding concrete.
I'll then follow w/regular filler and a glazing putty.
My theory is that the fiberglass will flex less than a regular filler,showing less of a line,but like Len said,if you look close enough,you'll see it.

[mopar addict]

Hay thanks for all the advice and pointers. It's been very helpful. Now I just need a little time to get back at it.
Hey Len do you have any of thatin a bottle?????
Thanks Tim.