PDA

View Full Version : Polishing has always scared me Questions on Orange Peel


TheCoatingStore.com

junk
08-26-2012, 09:53 PM
This is how the paint turned out on the doors and cab of my crewcab project. Overall I'm happy with how straight the doors turned out. I'm torn on the orange peel. On one hand the clear seems smooth, but the paint seems to have a lot of peel in it. So this has lead me to some questions. First let me state that I did buy roberts video so i think I have a good base for how to color sand this when I finally get ready to do it. I've always played with polishing but it always scares me.

Ok little on the prep. Doors were sanded with 400 wet. I used my tekna when I sprayed epoxy primer/sealer mixed to a sealer right before color then into clear. I'm wondering if my sealer didn't lay as smooth as I thought and that is leading to me thinking the color has the peel not the clear. Would a dedicated sealer lay out smoother? The clear feels and looks smooth.

So will color sanding take out this orange peel? If not then I'm assuming I could sand the clear reapply color and clear and would be good to go?

9945
9944

Len
08-26-2012, 10:37 PM
Yes, that should sand out and polish into a smooth paint job. If all of the peel is in the sealer it could be a problem so you may want to go easy and not try to remove the peel totally but just cut it down a little then polish it to see how it looks. If you want to take it all the way out you have to accept the fact that you may need to apply more base and clear if you sand through the clear coat.

Henry
08-27-2012, 10:58 AM
[QUOTE=junk;207832]This is how the paint turned out on the doors and cab of my crewcab project. Overall I'm happy with how straight the doors turned out. I'm torn on the orange peel. On one hand the clear seems smooth, but the paint seems to have a lot of peel in it. So this has lead me to some questions. First let me state that I did buy roberts video so i think I have a good base for how to color sand this when I finally get ready to do it. I've always played with polishing but it always scares me.
Ok little on the prep. Doors were sanded with 400 wet. I used my tekna when I sprayed epoxy primer/sealer mixed to a sealer right before color then into clear. I'm wondering if my sealer didn't lay as smooth as I thought and that is leading to me thinking the color has the peel not the clear. Would a dedicated sealer lay out smoother? The clear feels and looks smooth.

So will color sanding take out this orange peel? If not then I'm assuming I could sand the clear reapply color and clear and would be good to go?

9945


I'd like to help but to be blunt first, you need to shake that fear or being scared of finishing YOUR paint or just don't do it.
I can understand your "concern" of touching new paint. What the hell, new complete paint is the cleanest any vehicle will ever be. It's ALL one color and big too so why mess with it?

You have to sand before you buff anyway so what do you have to sand with; what grit(s); what do you have for a buffer; what compound will you use?

What do you know about buffing; which pads; do you know what it means to buff "OFF" the panel?
Most importantly, other than your products and tools, is not too look at the WHOLE vehicle but concentrate on an 18" x 18" area at a time. NEVER buff with a DRY pad.

That texture appears (from what we can see) to be able to sand and buff to a nice gloss providing you have enough clear (over 2 coats) and don't sand through. If it were mine, I might start with 800grit finishing film dry. You may want to try one inconspicuous section to get a feel for a result (not the hood).

I seriously think you need some time with your buffer BEFORE you attack the new paint. Do a search on this site for proper buffing. Below is a link of Robert doing his thing from the CLASSROOM section (from the HOME page here). You'll learn a few things from that.
Then I think you should find an oxidezed car to buff to get comfortable with the process and your machine. If no car to do then practice on old fenders or hoods. You need to shake that fear.
Pretty color by the way. Is it a Ford color? You can send me a PM if you want and I'll be glad to help you.

Henry

http://www.autobodystore.com/rsw.shtml

You can leave some orange peel since factory paint has it and some have a lot.

Henry
08-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Below is a link to Robert using his buffer. Select the ones you need to see. Henry

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showthread.php?23828-Robert-s-Detailing-Videos

junk
08-27-2012, 03:47 PM
I ordered Roberts video and have been watching it. I also watched his videos on youtube. So I'm relatively comfortable with the buffing process as he explained it. Roberts techniques in the videos made complete sense to me when watching them. Buffing off the panel made sense.

My plan was to start sanding using my air vantage with an interface pad. I was going to go 800 grit, 1200 grit and then 1500 grit finishing film dry then buff. I'm going to see what my local supplier has for these materials first otherwise I'll order them from Len.

I definitely need to check my buffing pads and compounds before I start doing anything. I'll see what I got at home and post what they are. Then you guys can help me with what will work and what won't.

I've buffed cars lightly before. Typically sanding out a run or bug. I've always stayed away from color sanding the whole vehicle because I didn't really know where to start.

Thanks for the comments Henry and Len. I'll be posting more questions as I keep reading and learning about this. I knew between Roberts video and this sites help I can get this skill under my belt also. This paint is probably 1.5 months old now so it may sand and polish hard, but we'll see. I had a problem with bugs and only did 2 coats of clear. So if I need to add another coat or 2 of clear it won't hurt my feelings, but I would like to sand and buff on it first for practice if nothing else.

It is a ford color Dark Copper from a 2005 king ranch truck. I do really like the color. i still have the bed and front clip to paint so I'll be working on my technique for those panels when the time comes.

Thanks for the comments and there will be more questions. - Jeremy

xtremekustomz
08-27-2012, 05:18 PM
This is just personal opinion here and am not really an expert but I like to do my first sanding with a hard block to get everything smooth and flat. I usually hit it with a 1000 by hand but 1200 would probably be better for your first time. Normally I would switch to 1500 then 2000 by hand but since I bought the airvantage sander I go to 1500 (trizact) on it wet and then 3000 (trizact). The trizact paper is expensive but it will last. I know alot of people say to just do 1500 because a compound will take out the scratches which it will but you will have a much nicer finish if you go up to a 3000. Plus you aren't having to worry about burn through from keeping the buffer in one place for too long. Have I ever cut through the clear? Absolutely but that's just part of the learning curve. Look at it this way...you painted the whole truck so if you have to touchup or repaint a panel you can do it. Take your time and try to have fun with it. Some would call me crazy but I actually enjoy doing it. Especially when you stand back and look at what you have done.

junk
08-27-2012, 06:55 PM
In Roberts video he said to start with 800 as you need an aggressive grit to flatten the surface then use the finer grits to help remove the deep scratches the 800 left behind. That generally seems to make sense to me. A lot of you are suggesting to start out finer and then finish out with 3000 trizact. I could also see how finishing out with a finer grit will make polishing easier, but does it flatten as well?

Typically what I've done in the past is start out with around 800 or 1000 switch to 1500 then finish out with 2000. I've always done this by hand with a durablocks. I've burned through plenty of clear in the past, but normally that's when I'm sanding out a run. I do have a couple runs to sand out, but I will use the glazing putty trick to sand out my runs and hopefully not burn through.

I'm not trying to get a glass smooth finish on this. I hate peel, yet am Ok with as shot finishes most of the time. New cars have tons of peal in them and I'm good if I can emulate that finish out of the gun for most projects. I do want to be comfortable color sanding though as I've got a couple old cars I want to paint and would be going for a smoother finish.

Here again I'll have to check my paper stocks and see what sand papers I have on hand and then run them by you guys. Might as well use materials I have if they'll work.

Thanks,
Jeremy

xtremekustomz
08-27-2012, 07:37 PM
In Roberts video he said to start with 800 as you need an aggressive grit to flatten the surface then use the finer grits to help remove the deep scratches the 800 left behind. That generally seems to make sense to me. A lot of you are suggesting to start out finer and then finish out with 3000 trizact. I could also see how finishing out with a finer grit will make polishing easier, but does it flatten as well?

Typically what I've done in the past is start out with around 800 or 1000 switch to 1500 then finish out with 2000. I've always done this by hand with a durablocks. I've burned through plenty of clear in the past, but normally that's when I'm sanding out a run. I do have a couple runs to sand out, but I will use the glazing putty trick to sand out my runs and hopefully not burn through.

I'm not trying to get a glass smooth finish on this. I hate peel, yet am Ok with as shot finishes most of the time. New cars have tons of peal in them and I'm good if I can emulate that finish out of the gun for most projects. I do want to be comfortable color sanding though as I've got a couple old cars I want to paint and would be going for a smoother finish.

Here again I'll have to check my paper stocks and see what sand papers I have on hand and then run them by you guys. Might as well use materials I have if they'll work.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Yes I would say 800 if you are looking for a show quality finish which you said you are not. You are just wanting to remove some of the orange peel right? I've never used 1200 but I think if you did that your compound will still remove those scratches if you don't get it 100% perfect after sanding with higher grits.

I did this truck a little while back. The orange peel wasn't really all that bad but I sanded with 1000 on a durablock followed by 1500 trizact wet on da then 3000 trizact wet on da.

Before:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf.jpg

After:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf2.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf3.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf4.jpg

All Dry
08-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Yes I would say 800 if you are looking for a show quality finish which you said you are not. You are just wanting to remove some of the orange peel right? I've never used 1200 but I think if you did that your compound will still remove those scratches if you don't get it 100% perfect after sanding with higher grits.

I did this truck a little while back. The orange peel wasn't really all that bad but I sanded with 1000 on a durablock followed by 1500 trizact wet on da then 3000 trizact wet on da.

Before:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf.jpg

After:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf2.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf3.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/xtremekustomz/asdf4.jpg That looks really good. Mike

junk
08-27-2012, 10:31 PM
xtremecustomz that truck looks really nice. Very smooth. I appreciate all the help and comments guys.

Ok I went out and checked what I had. Since I have 1200 and 2000 grit wet papers on hand I'll probably sand this out by hand first, but wouldn't mind getting my sander setup to color sand. I do have 1200 grit sticky back I got with a used sander, but I'm not sure if it could be used for color sanding. Can this be used for color sanding? To color sand you want to use a small orbit like a 3/32" right? If I can use the sticky back 1200 then I would have to use the sticky back pad. Is that Ok?

My polisher is only a 2 speed unit. I'd love to buy a new variable speed unit, but that's not on the priority list for a couple months. I have a yellow foam pad and a wool pad for it. My polish is some Wizards finish cut.

9962
9963
9964
9965
9966

Robert
08-28-2012, 09:19 AM
First, thanks all for the kind words about the video.

If you run into any problems polishing the scratches out, don't worry about it. Just get some 2000 and 2500 grit sandpaper and throw it in a bucket overnight - soaking paper really well makes it cut a lot more uniform. Then, use a soft block and sand again. It should buff out very easily. Keep your buff pad in a plastic zip lock bag when you're not using it and it will stay ready to use when you get back to it.

The initial cut is the one that defines the overall - flatness/distinctness of image - finish on the paint. I would suggest 1200 to start and since it looks like a work truck I wouldn't cut absolutely flat, just say 90% It looks like it could handle more, but keeping paint on the car is a good thing.

Take Care,
Robert

junk
01-31-2013, 09:12 AM
Ok guys Tried sanding a fender with 1200 grit trizact and then went to 3000 grit trizact. Where has this been all my life!! Wow that went really well. I've been so scared to burn through, but sanding moderately and watching what I was doing it sanded out beautiful and buffed out nice also. Well for me it turned out great. My buffing has been anything but beautiful in the past. I probably am going to go a little further, but will probably wait until it's all assembled and then it all at the same time. Sorry no pictures yet.

Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.
1134211343

Len
01-31-2013, 09:59 AM
Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.


The fellow that does my polishing is now addicted to the Sure Finish Orange Pad ( "A" below), he uses them until he wears them out. Also try Wizard's Mystic Cut, this compound is great. If you use the orange pad you need to use it with a 6" backing plate, an 8" backing plate is too big.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/sfstuff.jpg
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=SFPADS&Category_Code=T2)

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/wiz11048.jpg
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=WIZ11048&Category_Code=M3)

Henry
02-01-2013, 05:39 AM
Ok guys Tried sanding a fender with 1200 grit trizact and then went to 3000 grit trizact. Where has this been all my life!! Wow that went really well. I've been so scared to burn through, but sanding moderately and watching what I was doing it sanded out beautiful and buffed out nice also. Well for me it turned out great. My buffing has been anything but beautiful in the past. I probably am going to go a little further, but will probably wait until it's all assembled and then it all at the same time. Sorry no pictures yet.

Ok one new question came up. What pad should I be using? I used a yellow foam pad with Wizards compound last night. Seemed to work fine, but wondering if I should be using different pads or even staging through different pads as I buff? Similar to sand paper.

Thanks for all the help and suggestion guys. - Always appreciated. Jeremy

The yellow foam pad is what I was using and the larger bottle of wizards compound.


JUNK, I was gonna mention those OP sides but didn't want you to think I was criticising you. I would not finalize the sides at this time. I say that because you're been painting the nose OFF the truck and I would hold off with the perfection of the sides until I could make sure there is a match.

I 'second' that ORANGE pad from the Sure Finish collection. All those pads were very well researched before put on the site for sale. The ORANGE is unique (even difficult to burn paint with). I doubt anyone else offers such a pad. Take you time as you can see the finish line coming up.

Henry

junk
02-01-2013, 09:32 AM
Yeah one of those orange pads and backers is on my buy list. I also like the smaller size for smaller areas, but still big enough for a hood etc.

Henry - As it stands now I was playing with the fender after sanding out a run and wanted to try the trizact that I had just picked up. So beyond that I've done no color sanding and will wait to do the rest once it's all assembled. No trouble with critical comments either. Polishing is one of the next steps in the process I'm trying to get nailed down so it's consistent for me. Just like prime and paint work is getting.

Thanks,
Jeremy

junk
02-01-2013, 10:28 PM
Here's some pictures of the fender I sanded with trizact. There is literally just a few minutes of work in this. It's not perfect, but came a long way in a short period of time.

1135511356

junk
01-22-2014, 10:04 AM
Well I've been buffing out defects in my paint on this truck using the sure finish pad and Wizards Mystic cut. I'm not real comfortable with buffing, but am getting more comfortable. I will say that pad and compound combination seem to work great. I don't find myself having to rebuff stuff because it dulled out.

I've also been using the dolphin glaze over clear coat runs trick when sanding them out. That's been working really well for me.

I'm waiting to do the main sides of the truck until the bed is painted and ready to buff out. My thought is buffing out the whole sides at the same time will hopefully end up with a more consistent finish.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice on buffing. I'm not comfortable, but getting more comfortable every time I break out the buffer.

I'll post pictures of how I do once I get into the meat and potatoes of this.

Thanks
Jeremy

Henry
01-27-2014, 01:32 PM
Well I've been buffing out defects in my paint on this truck using the sure finish pad and Wizards Mystic cut. I'm not real comfortable with buffing, but am getting more comfortable. I will say that pad and compound combination seem to work great. I don't find myself having to rebuff stuff because it dulled out.

I've also been using the dolphin glaze over clear coat runs trick when sanding them out. That's been working really well for me.

I'm waiting to do the main sides of the truck until the bed is painted and ready to buff out. My thought is buffing out the whole sides at the same time will hopefully end up with a more consistent finish.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their advice on buffing. I'm not comfortable, but getting more comfortable every time I break out the buffer. STOP THIS SHIT!!!I'll post pictures of how I do once I get into the meat and potatoes of this.

Thanks
Jeremy

Jeremy, we need to talk: I do NOT BELIEVE YOU ARE SCARED TO BUFF but if you are then step away and either leave it or let someone else finish your truck. So decide - which is it?

Here is how I see it for you, others and myself. We did all this work and satisfied all the variables in the trade. Spent tons of money and hundreds of hours. Now it's time to bring out the best of our efforts by colorsanding/buffing and detailing.

Here's the deal. Colorsanding/buffing is a pain in the ass because we need to FOCUS on touching our finished product. You ARE like a lot of people OVERWHELMED because you see the WHOLE vehicle and look at your buffer and your mind knows this is a time consuming process. You think about how long it takes for that pad at 3-4 inches on the surface as you buff and your mind says, "you gotta be shitting me" as you look at the whole vehicle. I am TELLING you to look at a square foot or 2 foot square area AT A TIME and ONLY work an area that size to perfection. Yeah it will take time but you one have those size areas to do. Try 2 foot sq area to see what I mean and you will see how nice you can make it. That's it in a nut shell. FOCUS ONLY on the area. DO NOT try to run the buffer over the entire door, fender quarter as you will not accomplish shit. You will only make yourself crazy.

The above is assuming you have a good buffer to do the job like the Makita 9227c or a Hitachi sp18 with the proper torque and triggering.
Consider you are on third base and it's a long run to home plate but you are on the end run so persevere. You can and will do it just do it in DEDICATED squared. Understand? PM me if you want to talk about it. You are NOT scared of anything just looking at the whole vehicle and I'm telling you not to. Try what said and report back. The phrase for you is YES I CAN.

Henry

junk
01-27-2014, 10:00 PM
Henry - the reason I use the term scared is because before this truck and the reading I've done here every time I touched a buffer I burned through somewhere. Literally I always burned an edge. I've come to the conclusion that I had no clue what I was doing and used products that didn't work well together. So I would have to buff like crazy to get the scratch out and end up catching an edge. And I was really good at runs so I was always fixing big runs on edges. Thus I would dread using the buffer.

I've seriously thought about taking this truck to someone else to buff out. Problem is I don't really trust other people to do things. As it stands now I will tackle it myself. Gotta get completely comfortable with polishing sometime. My buffer is reasonable, but I do use the surfinish orange pad and mystic cut.

General question on buffing, How crazy to do you guys get on door tops? Around each of my windows is a 2-3" wide strip of metal. Most of them look pretty good to me. Do you guys color sand and buff that out or just leave them as is?

tomsteve
01-28-2014, 07:52 AM
to add to what henry said, look at what ya have done instead of focusing on what ya have left. whatever ya did to get the great results ya have so far, repeat. I found,for me, that thinkin," I got great results doin that, now if I try_____" I end up screwin up. stickin with what I know has been workin pretty good.
watch for heat build up. ya got a pretty nice paint job so be patient.
"every time I touched a buffer I burned through somewhere. Literally I always burned an edge."
2 things on this statement:
did ya learn what caused ya to burn an edge? if so, don't do that again.
have ya burned though on this one?

keep the buffing area small and BE PATIENT.

I was scared sh*tless when I got a rotary buffer. took my time on the 1st few cars and observed how the products and pads worked.
still take my time buffing as im just a hobbiest.

tomsteve
01-28-2014, 07:57 AM
heres something you may want to do to encourage ya to keep on workin:
take that fender outside and look at it in the sun.

Henry
01-28-2014, 12:09 PM
Henry - the reason I use the term scared is because before this truck and the reading I've done here every time I touched a buffer I burned through somewhere. Literally I always burned an edge. I've come to the conclusion that I had no clue what I was doing and used products that didn't work well together. So I would have to buff like crazy to get the scratch out and end up catching an edge. And I was really good at runs so I was always fixing big runs on edges. Thus I would dread using the buffer.

I've seriously thought about taking this truck to someone else to buff out. Problem is I don't really trust other people to do things. As it stands now I will tackle it myself. Gotta get completely comfortable with polishing sometime. My buffer is reasonable, but I do use the surfinish orange pad and mystic cut.

General question on buffing, How crazy to do you guys get on door tops? Around each of my windows is a 2-3" wide strip of metal. Most of them look pretty good to me. Do you guys color sand and buff that out or just leave them as is?

Leave the tops of the doors FOR NOW.

I tried the ORANGE PAD shortly after Robert introduced it on this site. For years after I replied to posts here that I think it would be difficult to BURN with this pad. It really is something and along with that it's something you need to get used to.

You burning through and why: Any burning on paint comes from HEAT. Where ever you create heat you can burn the paint. NEVER let your pad get dried out while buffing and don't start off with a dry pad. Keep your pads lubricated (seasoned) and always moist keeps the heat down.
Learn, know and understand what it means to "buff OFF the panel". And for you I'll add SLOW that buffer down and reduce the pressure you put on it for critical areas like peads and edges. I think your buffer itself is heavy, I think your RPM's might be too high, I think you're buffing on the dry side and you may have pushed down on the buffer creating more heat.

Other than the hood, everything you have left are sides on that long truck. If that buffer in the picture is the one I'm thinking of than it IS heavy and will be a real bear on the sides. Just a suggestion but if you plan on doing other vehicles and maintaining what you have then now might be a good time to buy the lighter Makita 9227C with a lot of the advantages to help you over what you have. Hell, you could buy one of those for less than you would pay someone to buff it for you.

I think you should start buffing in the middle of a door. Work your way side to side and up and down till you get close to the edge or even 3-4 inches from the edge. Stand back and have a look. If it looks as good as that fender you showed us then you done good (as tomesteve agrees). Wipe your work down with MICROFIBER for the best look of your work.
Now, start in the middle again but where you left off and buff INTO the areas you left. Keep the buffer on a low speed for all your compounding and work the machine into the unbuffed border you left. If you start from inside the border you can see what you are doing and how far to the very edge. DON'T do the edge. There, see, we took away all your chances of burning. NOTE: I picture your buffer coming off the driver side door R/S more comfortably than the passenger door edge. On the passenger door left edge you would have to buff at 6 O'clock to spin OFF THE EDGE. Understand?

Keep a low speed; nothing dry; start in the middle; go slowly letting the product work; keep off the edges; stop often to wipe down and see what you have and are doing.

junk
02-09-2014, 05:17 PM
Keep a low speed; nothing dry; start in the middle; go slowly letting the product work; keep off the edges; stop often to wipe down and see what you have and are doing.

Henry - I do appreciate the help on this. I think you've hit everything on the head that I've done. I have upgraded buffers since those pics. My new buffer is variable speed. I think my old buffer was 2 speed and I'm sure was too fast. I'm also sure I used too aggressive of pads and underperforming polish. Thus I felt I had to really lean on it to get it work and then made stuff hot. I also was buffing from like 1200 maybe 2000 grit scratch. And since I was doing so much run removal with like 600 grit I had to sand with 1200 and 2000 a lot to get the 600 grit scratch out.

So this weekend I painted my pickup box, tailgate and mirrors for my project truck. I sprayed them friday night. Had a couple sags, but no big runs. I was happy considering I painted small parts. Saturday night I sanded out and buffed the tail gate. I first hit the tail gate with 1200 on a block to take out dust heads. Then 1500 and 3000 trizact with the da. I didn't pull out all the orange peel, but did a lot. I made sure to keep my pad wet, buffer on slow. Kept the sand papers away from the edges. Everything went well. No burnt edges, smooth finish by feel and reasonable orange peel. Don't worry about the center area it gets a big stainless panel in the center.

Before
13330
After
13331

tbm3fan
02-10-2014, 12:57 AM
Interesting in that the buffing process doesn't worry me. The part that worries me is always the sanding particularly the 1500 clear coat discs. Hand sanding with 800 or 1000 is a piece of cake but the disc on the Makita is another matter. I need to be sterile in my profession so naturally I am very clean when it comes to the 1500. Wash, wash, wash the disc and use plenty of water yet always seem to get some definitely circular scratches from a particle that somehow finds it's way in. Can be aggravating. I just redid my tailgate and the only rotary discs used were a new 3000 and 4000 while all else was hand sand. Luckily there were 4 coats of paint and it now looks much better when eyeballing it from the side in certain light.

Henry
02-10-2014, 06:50 AM
Interesting in that the buffing process doesn't worry me.
The part that worries me is always the sanding particularly the 1500 clear coat discs. Hand sanding with 800 or 1000 is a piece of cake but the disc on the Makita is another matter.
I need to be sterile in my profession so naturally I am very clean when it comes to the 1500. Wash, wash, wash the disc and use plenty of water yet always seem to get some definitely circular scratches from a particle that somehow finds it's way in. Can be aggravating. I just redid my tailgate and the only rotary discs used were a new 3000 and 4000 while all else was hand sand. Luckily there were 4 coats of paint and it now looks much better when eyeballing it from the side in certain light.

Are you using one of the sanding discs above on a Makita sander/polisher or are you using a DA?

And congratulations because you are now really close to the end and all is coming out great. PLUS, that's a hell of a big truck. Keep it up.

Henry

Len
02-10-2014, 07:25 AM
Interesting in that the buffing process doesn't worry me. The part that worries me is always the sanding particularly the 1500 clear coat discs. Hand sanding with 800 or 1000 is a piece of cake but the disc on the Makita is another matter. I need to be sterile in my profession so naturally I am very clean when it comes to the 1500. Wash, wash, wash the disc and use plenty of water yet always seem to get some definitely circular scratches from a particle that somehow finds it's way in. Can be aggravating. I just redid my tailgate and the only rotary discs used were a new 3000 and 4000 while all else was hand sand. Luckily there were 4 coats of paint and it now looks much better when eyeballing it from the side in certain light.

The only time we put sandpaper on the Makita is to strip paint off the surface. After the car is painted and you want to remove orange peel you should be using an orbital sander, like the one below, with those fine sandpaper disks THEN use the Makita to polish the paint.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tnavnon.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=AVS61100S&Category_Code=T)

tomsteve
02-10-2014, 08:12 AM
the Makita thing caught my attention,too. im hopin ya meant on yer airvantage sander.

junk
02-10-2014, 08:36 AM
You know it's funny, but dust and dirt when finish sanding hasn't been a big issue for me. Given I work in a dusty shop it should be, but hasn't been. I store my trizact sheets in a drawer when not in use to keep the dust and dirt off them. I picked up a dynabrade sander for finish sanding. It isn't the shortest throw, but next size up. Works really well. I noticed when I was buffing I still had some crescent shaped sand scratches left in the finish, so I buffed some more and they were gone. I need to hit my hood again. It's got some small scratches left I need removed.

I did end up with a sag in the box side I didn't see yesterday. But no big deal little dolphin glaze and wet sand will pull it out easily. Then a good buff and polish.

This trucks getting fun now! Getting close to the end - other than I still have a full interior to finish up. I'm anxious to get the bed on the truck and probably would have if my steering column hadn't broken. 0 degrees and old grease in my column equaled a broken key switch.

Thanks for all the help guys!
Jeremy

Henry
02-10-2014, 08:51 AM
the Makita thing caught my attention,too. im hopin ya meant on yer airvantage sander.

he is NOT using the Makita to finish sand. He's also not hearing Len, you or me asking. I wish him the best (you tbm3fan).

Henry

tbm3fan
02-11-2014, 11:29 PM
The only time we put sandpaper on the Makita is to strip paint off the surface. After the car is painted and you want to remove orange peel you should be using an orbital sander, like the one below, with those fine sandpaper disks THEN use the Makita to polish the paint.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tnavnon.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ABS&Product_Code=AVS61100S&Category_Code=T)

I had gotten the impression back in 2009 that the Makita could be used with a soft back and 1500 clear coat disc. Thought great since I do not have an air compressor making the Air Advantage useless. Maybe I mis-read something back then since the Air Advantage was just being mentioned at the time.

I need to use electric tools and only have the Makita 9227 and BO6040. Might the 6040 be better for those discs using forced orbital?

Len
02-12-2014, 06:33 AM
I had gotten the impression back in 2009 that the Makita could be used with a soft back and 1500 clear coat disc. Thought great since I do not have an air compressor making the Air Advantage useless. Maybe I mis-read something back then since the Air Advantage was just being mentioned at the time.

I need to use electric tools and only have the Makita 9227 and BO6040. Might the 6040 be better for those discs using forced orbital?

I've never used the BO6040 to sand new paint but I'm sure it would be a better choice than the 9227. I'd would NOT use it in the forced rotation mode, it would be less risky to use the 6040 in random orbit mode. The difficulty with using this type of machine on new paint is that it (unlike the AirVantage) is difficult to judge when the machine is being held flat and you could be damaging the paint. Because of it's low profile design the AirVantage holds itself flat.

Henry
02-12-2014, 01:21 PM
I had gotten the impression back in 2009 that the Makita could be used with a soft back and 1500 clear coat disc. Thought great since I do not have an air compressor making the Air Advantage useless. Maybe I mis-read something back then since the Air Advantage was just being mentioned at the time.

I need to use electric tools and only have the Makita 9227 and BO6040. Might the 6040 be better for those discs using forced orbital?

I wish ROBERT would chime in on this colorsanding with a Makita buffer. Good luck to you using this method. I could not get comfortable or even think of this. I'm not saying this to insult you but to me, it's just too risky and I never would have thought of doing it that way. If you don't have a compressor then you just don't. If it were my project I would just resort to what I did for over 30yrs before finishfilm and hand sand. I wish you well.

Henry

Len
02-12-2014, 04:16 PM
I wish ROBERT would chime in on this colorsanding with a Makita buffer. Good luck to you using this method. I could not get comfortable or even think of this. I'm not saying this to insult you but to me, it's just too risky and I never would have thought of doing it that way. If you don't have a compressor then you just don't. If it were my project I would just resort to what I did for over 30yrs before finishfilm and hand sand. I wish you well.

Henry

You're right Henry, I'd probably sand by hand before I used either the buffer or the BO6040, both are too dangerous and could easily hurt the finish. 3M sells an electric sand quite similar to the AirVantage but it costs around $500. Robert uses one of these because he does most of his color sanding on the road where a compressor is not always available.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/AutoBodyStore/Products/3m28523_zps08b4a86e.png

tbm3fan
02-13-2014, 12:25 AM
I wish ROBERT would chime in on this colorsanding with a Makita buffer. Good luck to you using this method. I could not get comfortable or even think of this. I'm not saying this to insult you but to me, it's just too risky and I never would have thought of doing it that way. If you don't have a compressor then you just don't. If it were my project I would just resort to what I did for over 30yrs before finishfilm and hand sand. I wish you well.

Henry

Well it is a good thing I didn't know it was risky back in 2009. Actually I have never damaged any paint by using it at 600 rpm. Starting with at least 3 coats of paint there has never been an issue with going through. Probably because of my light touch and always checking the surface. So apparently I was wrong but that wasn't apparent back in 2009 when asking. As for my truck bed it was sanded just using my hand and a balsa wood block in your basic X pattern.

I may look into that 3M tool as I found it on Amazon at $464.00