Devilbiss GTI to Plus Conversion

[DougE]

I understand that purchasing an aircap and fluid tip from the Plus gun will "convert" my GTI to a Plus as some have stated in previous posts. Discussions with Devilbiss revealed that while this conversion can be performed, the body itself had some differences that will not result in a true plus gun when finished.

Has anyone actually performed the conversion? If so, were you happy with the results and was it worth the cost? From the limited information I have it looks like the aircap and one tip will cost about $100.

Also, for those using this gun, what is your preferred tip size for shooting high solids clear (PPG in my case)?

Thanks for the help

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

I was told personally at the NACE trade show by the automotive products manager that the aircap/nozzle conversion was all that it took. If you look at the exploded parts view on DeVilbiss' website you can see that the guns match part number for part number between the two with the exception of the aircap/nozzle. I've converted two GIT's with no issue whatsoever. So whoever is telling you this bullshit at DeVilbiss is simply trying to get you to buy the complete gun rather than converting your GTI.

[DougE]

Dennis

I could tell the Devilbiss rep was trying to talk me out of making the change and into a new gun. Thanks for the info.

How do you like your guns with the Plus setup? What tip size do you recommend for high solids clears?

Thanks

[gtcway]

I plan on converting my GTI to a Plus. A couple months ago, I saw Devilbiss Plus handles, just the handles, nothing attached, on Ebay. I bid on it and got two Plus handles for about $20. I took my GTI apart to do a good cleaning and compared the two handles. The only difference I can see is the name stamped on it. All of the internal air passages look the same. I still haven't bought the aircap and fluid tip but plan to soon.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

The Plus setup is great. I'd go with the 1.2 or 1.3 at the most. All DeVilbiss guns are really fast. They all put out a ton of material and the Plus even more so than the GTI which is a very fast HVLP gun. Whatever you liked on the GTI go down at least one step and maybe two to get the same speed out of the Plus.

[brucebotti]

You guys have my interest up. What are the benefits of converting to the Plus? I have a GTI which works reasonably well, but would consider converting if it will do a better job.
Thanks,
Bruce

[Len]

As far as I'm concerned the Plus atomizes better while using less CFM. However you do generate a little more overspray than the GTI.

[brucebotti]

Len,
What would the conversion cost....to go from the GTI to the Plus? The aircap on my GTI has a small nick right near the opening, which may be a cause for concern.
Thanks,
Bruce

[Len]

Bruce
The Plus air cap is $69 and the fluid tip is $49. The needle is $18 but it's the same needle you already have so you really don't need to purchase one unless you want a new one.

[mdbrandy]

Pardon the newbie question, but I have been looking at these two guns in Len's store:

DeVilbiss GTI 620 G Gravity Feed HVLP
Devilbiss GFG-670G "Plus" - Gravity Feed Spray Gun

Are those the ones being discussed? Converting the GTI HVLP version into the "Plus" version that is not strictly HVLP? Len states:

"As far as I'm concerned the Plus atomizes better while using less CFM. However you do generate a little more overspray than the GTI."

For a new painter, doing a first and 2nd bc/cc in a garage, is one better than the other?

Thanks.

Mark

[Len]

It's kind of a trade off because the GTI will give a novice a more consistant finish with less runs and dry spots and the GFG will atomize better leaving the surface smoother.

However there are a couple of other considerations also...
1. If you have a smaller compressor you'll use a lot less air volume with the GFG
2. If you're going to sand the newly applied paint and buff it (like most of us do) then the slightly more orange peel generated by the GTI is a non-factor and is much easier to remedy than runs or dry spots that are more easily generated by the GFG.

So if you have a smallish compressor that puts out say 10 CFM or less with a tank size less than 60 gallons, I'd recommend the GFG (Plus) gun.

If you have a large compressor but little skill I'd probably recommend the GTI (HVLP) gun.

[mdbrandy]

If you have a large compressor but little skill I'd probably recommend the GTI (HVLP) gun.

That's me. I just completed installation of an 80 gallon, 2 stage, 15.3 CFM porter cable compressor, and presently have no painting skills :eek:

[X711]

Mark as len pointed out the plus gun will generate more-over spray but
the atomization on the plus gun is better than the GTI.

You do not have to run the plus gun flat out. It will run very well at 22 to 28
PSI with the trigger pulled.

Even with a high quality gun such as the plus gun, painting in your garrage
can be a challenge. I painted a car reciently using the plus gun in a similar
setup, the over spray and fog for a non spray-booth setup can be horrible.

Expect a fair ammount of fog and overspray.

If you want a gun that generates very little overspray the Iwata LPH-400 LV
gun would be a better choice. This gun is more costly than the plus and gti.

If you are looking for a small spot gun that generates low overspray then
the Devilbiss SRI is a good choice. You could use a SRI to paint your whole car but the cup is small so you would have to keep it filled up.

When it comes to overspray, this is directly related to the air pressure used
and the cap design. Of the guns mentioned the IWATA LPH-400 LV has the
lowest input air requirement. 16 PSI for a 12" fan at about 6 to 8" from the
panel. "Insane eh but true"

If you can afford it the Iwata is the way to go.

><

[mdbrandy]

Even with a high quality gun such as the plus gun, painting in your garrage can be a challenge. I painted a car reciently using the plus gun in a similar setup, the over spray and fog for a non spray-booth setup can be horrible.

Expect a fair ammount of fog and overspray.

If you want a gun that generates very little overspray the Iwata LPH-400 LV
gun would be a better choice. This gun is more costly than the plus and gti.

When it comes to overspray, this is directly related to the air pressure used
and the cap design. Of the guns mentioned the IWATA LPH-400 LV has the
lowest input air requirement. 16 PSI for a 12" fan at about 6 to 8" from the
panel. "Insane eh but true"

If you can afford it the Iwata is the way to go.

Well, the Iwata is about $139 more than the Devilbiss guns. Since I've already sunk $1200 into compressor/installation, and it looks like to get everything else I'm going to need to get started, it might be another $1700 or more, that doesn't look like a horrible amount more. But things are starting to get REALLY expensive, really fast, so I'm trying to make sure of what I REALLY need. Of course, the gun is prime, so if anything, I'll want to get a good one. I'll do some searches on the IWATA and see what comes up. There's very little info on the gun in the store.

[Len]

Iwata guns are good guns as is the Sata line of guns but I think you'll find that the DeVilbiss Plus will lay a coat of paint on just as well or better than the LV and end up costing you less. Also Iwata like Sata has their sales broken into territories and doesn't like to sell on the web so we need to jump through hoops to get their merchandise which usually means that it's takes longer to get and parts are not readily immediately available in many areas of the country. Sata is a little easier to service but they also have now restricted web sales and the price of their products are increasing accordingly. The DeVilbiss GFG-670G Plus gun and most other DeVilbiss guns and parts are available just about everywhere and are quite reasonably priced for the quality you get.

[mdbrandy]

Iwata guns are good guns as is the Sata line of guns but I think you'll find that the DeVilbiss Plus will lay a coat of paint on just as well or better than the LV and end up costing you less. Also Iwata like Sata has their sales broken into territories and doesn't like to sell on the web so we need to jump through hoops to get their merchandise which usually means that it's takes longer to get and parts are not readily immediately available in many areas of the country. Sata is a little easier to service but they also have now restricted web sales and the price of their products are increasing accordingly. The DeVilbiss GFG-670G Plus gun and most other DeVilbiss guns and parts are available just about everywhere and are quite reasonably priced for the quality you get.

Given that I'm a hobbyist, I can't afford to go nuts. So thanks for the advice. Two cars this summer, a restoration over the next couple years, and now, as of a week ago, the passenger door on the minivan...(thanks to the wife and a parking lot pole...). If all that goes well, I can see fixing the door dings in the Camry, the paint chips in the Grand Am....

[X711]

Iwata guns are good guns as is the Sata line of guns but I think you'll find that the DeVilbiss Plus will lay a coat of paint on just as well or better than the LV and end up costing you less.
================================================== =======

Len, there is no doubt that the Devilbiss plus is a excellent gun and the satas are good too. But in a non booth environment they do not compare to the iwata.

The Iwata's air requirement is very low 16psi for a full fan of 12" is all that is needed to achieve good atomization of the paint. When you look at the Plus gun it needs about 29psi for good atomization, but at 29 psi your not going to get a full fan of 12". At 29 psi the overspray from the plus gun or similar guns is pretty bad, Its kind of like having a fire hose and pointing it at the panel.

In a down draft spray booth this may be a non issue, but in a garage or similar setup its really a big deal imho.

I have a variety of guns including the plus gun and the iwata lph400-144LV.
I like them all as they are quality products. Given a choice between the two
the Iwata is superior based on air requirements, Fan width, quality of finish
using HS or LS paint.

I am not sure if many folks on here use the Iwata LPH400-XXXLv, The main
reason I purchased one was to reduce the overspray and fog, It would be interesting to hear from others to see if their experience with it is similar to mine.

Thanks ><

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

I've got everything. SATA, DeVilbiss, and LPH400-LV with both aircaps (purple and silver). The deal is that all produce a good job but X711 is correct the Iwata will do it with less air and less overspray. However the Iwata will not give the equivalent finish to the SATA RP or PLUS at the recommended 16 PSIG. For that you need to turn it up to 20 PSIG. Even there the overspray is significantly less than the RP or the PLUS.

So if overspray is not an issue (good booth) all three will work equally. If it's a showstopper the LPH400LV is the clear winner but only when run at 20 PSIG.

[X711]

Dennis thanks for sharing your insight. The Iwata I have has the 1.4mm tip with the standard LV4 cap. I cant say I noticed that it did not spray as well as the plus gun. Honestly I think it did better. The full fan on the Iwata produced a solid complete end to end 12" deposit of paint on the panel, I shot at about 6 to 8 inch distance.

I was impressed to say the least. I will keep in mind your suggestion of running it at 20 PSI. Perhaps the extra 4psi is needed for slighter thicker viscosity material. Not sure.

Either way I think for the non booth painter the Iwata is a winner. I would
imagne its a dream to use in a booth setup. The overspray and fog can be a real problem for the home based painter with limited resources i.e make shift booth, or none. Reducing the overspray and fog just makes doing the job
easier and cleaner, and whats really cool is that even at low psi the end
results are a pro finish.


Thanks ><

[pontgta]

Any actual pics of the conversion, and pics of sprayed parts with this setup?

[Dan C]

I've got everything. SATA, DeVilbiss, and LPH400-LV with both aircaps (purple and silver). The deal is that all produce a good job but X711 is correct the Iwata will do it with less air and less overspray. However the Iwata will not give the equivalent finish to the SATA RP or PLUS at the recommended 16 PSIG. For that you need to turn it up to 20 PSIG. Even there the overspray is significantly less than the RP or the PLUS.

So if overspray is not an issue (good booth) all three will work equally. If it's a showstopper the LPH400LV is the clear winner but only when run at 20 PSIG.

time to add a LPH400LV to the list,already have the PLUS...

Dan:privateeye: