comment on new forum

[keb1]

Well I think this should work better.
I can go to a given subject without scrolling forever.
I'm still navigating & getting used to this new style.
-
What area should I be to ask a specific question in regards to
to dual action sanders ?

[Phil V]

This is as good a segment of the forum as any for asking about a DA sander.
What questions do you have ?

[keb1]

Should I spend the money on one of the new type small diameter orbit DAs for sanding clear coat or just continue to do it by hand ?
I am scared that I will go right into the paint if I am not carefull.
If I do purchase one what brand and orbit size would you buy?

[Phil V]

For color sanding clear coat you don't really want a "DA". What you want is a palm orbital finishing sander. Len sells the Airvantage sander which is pretty hard to beat for doing what you want to do. You can buy those sanders in 3/16 orbit and I think they come in 3/32 orbit also. I personally would stick with the 3/16 because its a little more aggressive cutting that the smaller orbit 3/32 sander.

I'm reluctant to tell you that your worries of cutting through the clear are unfounded but generally speaking your worries are unfounded. The secret is in using the right finishing film/sandpaper to sand with. I use 1000 grit first then switch to 1500 grit but then I have close to 35 years full time experience doing this work for a living. I guess what I'm saying is if you use a more coarse grit of sandpaper then you're odds of cutting through the clear are higher. The same could be said of handsanding with different grits of paper. The bottom line is that the air oribtal sanders dont' really cut that fast because the sander paper grit is so fine.

[Len]

AirVantage are great for color sanding because they are light and easy to handle. You can get an AirVantage with a hook and loop pad and an interface pad and use it with Finishing Film to sand an entire car using much less time and effort than wet sanding. I usually recommend the 3/32" orbit for this step in the operation.

In most cases the only time you need to worry about punching through the clear is if there isn't enough on the surface or your sand on a peak or panel edge. If you stay on the large flat areas (probably about 90% of the job) you shouldn't have sand-thru problems.


AirVantage Sander Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=T2)
http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/av611000s.jpg

[TNshadetree]

Len,

I've got an AirVantage sander with a regular adhesive pad. Does the finishing film come in sticky back? Or is it only hook and loop?

[Robert]

Finishing film comes with either hook and loop, or PSA. The AirVantage sander backing plate can be changed to accommodate both type. if you're going to use the interface pad, which I'd recommend because it makes for a safer, if not flatter cut, you'll have to get a hook type backing plate.

If you're dry sanding with finishing film, it's probably safer than wet sanding because the dust forms guide coat. You can see the instant you've removed the orange peel. Also, because you'll be less tired your attention is less likely to wander. Just change the film often enough and don't run the speed so high you get pills on the paper and little pigtails cut into your paint.

It helps to wetsand wet after the finishing film if you want to make polishing easier. In spite of having done a lot of this, I'm still trying to decide if I want to finish with 2000 or 2500. I think cutting with 2500 and then buffing is much faster than cutting with a more aggressive polish, but I'm going to send Chris a quart of faster cutter this week and get his opinion.

Good Luck
Robert

[Len]

Len,

I've got an AirVantage sander with a regular adhesive pad. Does the finishing film come in sticky back? Or is it only hook and loop?


Yes, Finishing Film comes in stick-on but I'd recommend that you purchase a hook and loop pad for your sander and use Finishing Film with hook and loop backing for color sanding. Stick-on paper at finer grits tends to get hard spots that can mark the paint and it doesn't run as cool as hook and loop paper. Cooler paper tends to allow the dust to powder rather than ball up as it does when heated. The hook and loop paper lasts longer because of the reasons I stated above. An AirVantage hook and loop pad is easy to switch with your stick-on pad and is available by calling me at 1-888-485-5008

Stick-on Finishing Film comes in 600, 800, 1000 and 1200 but not 1500 like the hook and loop. If you want to go with stick-on paper give me a call and I'll get it for you.

[Denny]

Am trying to get used to this new forum. A few days passing ,plus some effort and change of how it was done before, then all should be well again.

Len my life would be considerably damaged if I could not check in here a number of times a day. Thank you for all the valuable info gathered on your site and your effort in arranging the forum.

Denny

[Phil V]

Another big advantage to hook-it pad finishing film is that the sanding discs can be removed when switching to a finer grit of disc and all those hoot-it discs can be re-used again later. The PSA stick-it finishing film discs when used and removed get dust and dirt on the sticky part then won't stick properly when you want to use it again. Hook-it pads are definately the way to go, easier and cheaper in the long run.

[Dennis N. Schmidt]

You absolutely want to go Hookit or Hookit II and not PSA. Here's the way that I use a random orbit sander (AirVantage or my older Dynabrade Supreme's) with finishing film. A lot depends upon how lousy I sprayed whatever it is that I'm spraying (I shoot automotive clearcoat on wood a lot so that's the reason for that comment)

1) If I shoot a lousy clearcoat.
a) Start with P1000 on a tapered edge (AirVantage terminology) or use what 3M calls a painter's pad. These are thicker and softer pads than the typical thin pads than come as standard on these sanders. THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL as you've got the most chance of cutting through. The point of this step is to remove the peaks of the orangepeel mountains. What I mean by this will be immediately clearly evident once you start sanding.
b) Switch over to P1200 with the addition of an interface pad between the film and the backing pad. This takes it down the rest of the way to level.
c) Switch over to P1500 using the same interface pad setup and quickly (one pass) remove the scratches from the previous work (use a grey Scotchbrite pad to remove any sanding corns from the finishing film or you will get pigtails, this is important).
d) Go to P3000 Trizact (I hate 3M but this stuff is the cat's ass that's all there is to it) and go over the whole surface until it has a reasonable shine. This is a fine enough abrasive that there in fact will be the start of a shine happening. Prior to Trizact I used Mirka Abralon for this purpose but Trizact is much longer lasting since it's aluminum oxide based whereas Abralon is Silicon Carbide based.
e) Use SureFinish to buff up to eyeball poping gloss using Robert's primmer on the subject.

If I shot a good coat of clear
a) Start at the P1500 step and go from there.

[fixdent]

It will be nice not having to scroll back and forth to read the posts to each thread.

Nice job Len.

--
Gordon

[goshawks00]

Len,
I like the new format I'm on another site that uses this type listings and it's great for following a post through it's postings. Thanks,
Barry

[jeffw]

i like this style forum 100x better easier to follow interesting posts with lots of commenst. any chance were going to be able to post pics direct in the future? do like tgo and a 3 pic rule to keep the sizes down. that would be super.. so far so good len just lock the old one and forward all people here

jeff

[keb1]

Where do I find sandpaper/finishing film with the hook / loop style backing?
I know what the hook/loop style pads look like as I have a 3M brand on my buffer.
Please send answer to this forum and also my work email.
work email: keb1@dcx.com
I will be out of towwn working and don't have access to the normal websites because of firewall installed on our work computers.

[fixdent]

http://www.geocities.com/fixdent/wreck1.jpg

seems like you can post a picture no problem....

--
Gordon

**Shareware Estimating Program** (http://www.geocities.com/fixdent)

[Len]

Where do I find sandpaper/finishing film with the hook / loop style backing?
I know what the hook/loop style pads look like as I have a 3M brand on my buffer.
Please send answer to this forum and also my work email.
work email: keb1@dcx.com
I will be out of towwn working and don't have access to the normal websites because of firewall installed on our work computers.


We should have just about anything you would need. You can either visit the abrasives area of the store located HERE (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=SM).

Or give us a call at 1-888-485-5008 and we can send you want you need.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/3mff.jpg

[Roch_Greg]

Len, this looks great :) .

Better organized by subject and makes it easier to search the forums for information. Been waiting for this for a long time

GregY in Rochester