PDA

View Full Version : What do you guys think??


TheCoatingStore.com

GTOKID
03-04-2011, 12:27 PM
I recently read an article in Street Rodder - they sprayed 2 coats of clear - wet sanded with 800 -sprayed 2 more coats of clear - then continued with the normal sandpaper progression and polishing. They indicated that by doing this, they reduced the chance of orange peel buildup. Any thoughts? I am very close to spraying BC/CC - I purchased the Plus gun from Len and can't wait to use it. I've read - if the gun is adjusted properly, it should lay down a pretty smooth coat - Thanks.

twfsa
03-08-2011, 11:57 AM
Don't have an answer for you but can't wait to read you comments on the Plus. Pic's too if you can.

Len
03-08-2011, 12:16 PM
I recently read an article in Street Rodder - they sprayed 2 coats of clear - wet sanded with 800 -sprayed 2 more coats of clear - then continued with the normal sandpaper progression and polishing. They indicated that by doing this, they reduced the chance of orange peel buildup. Any thoughts? I am very close to spraying BC/CC - I purchased the Plus gun from Len and can't wait to use it. I've read - if the gun is adjusted properly, it should lay down a pretty smooth coat - Thanks.

I've tried that method of clearing sanding and clearing then sanding and polishing and found that it doubled the work and didn't really result in any better finish.

Treveiger
04-14-2011, 11:21 PM
want too see your results also!

sagola-spain
05-02-2011, 04:20 AM
Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and thatīs all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done.

rons
05-19-2011, 10:02 PM
The procedure you describe is equivalent to the final stages of nitro finish on
a fine guitar. But the top coat is thinned out to four or more parts thinner to
one of nitro. The result is so smooth you can go right to the buffing stage.

Phil V
05-19-2011, 10:53 PM
Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done.

Quote from Sagola " the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done.". With all due respect thats a load of crap. Did you really think you could post something like that and not get called out on it ? They don't have dust nibs in Spain ? Sagola guns NEVER get orange peel ? I'd like to hear more about your $150,000 (Euro's) state of the art spray booth that Sagola's hired painters spray in (a little different than most mom and pop bodyshops and podunk car dealership paint shops across the US).

Len
05-19-2011, 11:27 PM
Quote from Sagola " the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done.". With all due respect thats a load of crap. Did you really think you could post something like that and not get called out on it ? They don't have dust nibs in Spain ? Sagola guns NEVER get orange peel ? I'd like to hear more about your $150,000 (Euro's) state of the art spray booth that Sagola's hired painters spray in (a little different than most mom and pop bodyshops and podunk car dealership paint shops across the US).

If it wasn't for a little dust here and there and one mishap that caused a run I wouldn't be sanding on any of the work that I've sprayed with my Sagola 4400. This is the only gun I've owned that I can say that about. I'm sure the 4400 can make orange peel when the conditions are right but I haven't experienced it yet.

rons
05-19-2011, 11:39 PM
If it wasn't for a little dust here and there and one mishap that caused a run I wouldn't be sanding on any of the work that I've sprayed with my Sagola 4400. This is the only gun I've owned that I can say that about. I'm sure the 4400 can make orange peel when the conditions are right but I haven't experienced it yet.

I have had a few paint sessions that came out perfect with no dust. This was on small parts.
As the spray area increases the chance for a perfect surface diminishes. A well kept and clean
spray booth is going to increase your chance of a perfect job.

sagola-spain
05-20-2011, 07:50 AM
Quote from Sagola " the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done.". With all due respect thats a load of crap. Did you really think you could post something like that and not get called out on it ? They don't have dust nibs in Spain ? Sagola guns NEVER get orange peel ? I'd like to hear more about your $150,000 (Euro's) state of the art spray booth that Sagola's hired painters spray in (a little different than most mom and pop bodyshops and podunk car dealership paint shops across the US).

Crap?...

I´ll telling you what is the standard process here, nothing more, nothing else, if you accidentally have some dust in a car, you polish it, of course, but sanding and buffing as part or the standard proccess?... no way

You can believe or not, but why should I lie? here the objetive is car-out-of-the-spraybooth=finished car, if you have to do something else to fix the paint, it is considered a fail.


Next holidays come here and ask by yourself.

Phil V
05-20-2011, 09:58 AM
ANY spray gun will spray a perfect job under optimal conditions. Hell a $25 Harbor Freight job will spray a glass smooth perfect paint job under optimal conditions. What set me off was Mr. Sagola insinuated that everyone can expect perfect paint jobs with Sagola spray guns EVERY time. Here is a quote from Sagola " Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and thatīs all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done". (end quote). What he is insinuating is Sagola spray guns are "the proper tool, and thats all" required to get a perfect paint job every time. He should have ended that with " in the hands of a well trained, well experienced expert professional painter under optimal conditions. (but he didn't). Some kid in podunk Iowa reads "Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and thatīs all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done" and thinks " Wow, with a gun like that I can start painting cars and every job will come out perfect in my barn using a 25 year old 20 gallon sears air compressor". My point is this site is basically geared to novices with little or no experience doing body work and paint work who come here for good advice from people who ARE experienced body men and painters. Novice painters can almost certainly NOT expect the same results that Mr. Sagola stated. Sagola guns probably are good guns and it helps to keep in mind that Sagola Paint Gun Company pays this guy to portray their spray guns in the best light. He should also have ended his statement with " your experiences may vary " (which for a novice painter is a given).

Snafu
05-20-2011, 10:23 AM
I've tried that method of clearing sanding and clearing then sanding and polishing and found that it doubled the work and didn't really result in any better finish.

I have never tried it for that very reason. No doubt unmasking and remasking is a must

Len
05-20-2011, 10:45 AM
ANY spray gun will spray a perfect job under optimal conditions. Hell a $25 Harbor Freight job will spray a glass smooth perfect paint job under optimal conditions. What set me off was Mr. Sagola insinuated that everyone can expect perfect paint jobs with Sagola spray guns EVERY time. Here is a quote from Sagola " Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done". (end quote). What he is insinuating is Sagola spray guns are "the proper tool, and thats all" required to get a perfect paint job every time. He should have ended that with " in the hands of a well trained, well experienced expert professional painter under optimal conditions. (but he didn't). Some kid in podunk Iowa reads "Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and that´s all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done" and thinks " Wow, with a gun like that I can start painting cars and every job will come out perfect in my barn using a 25 year old 20 gallon sears air compressor". My point is this site is basically geared to novices with little or no experience doing body work and paint work who come here for good advice from people who ARE experienced body men and painters. Novice painters can almost certainly NOT expect the same results that Mr. Sagola stated. Sagola guns probably are good guns and it helps to keep in mind that Sagola Paint Gun Company pays this guy to portray their spray guns in the best light. He should also have ended his statement with " your experiences may vary " (which for a novice painter is a given).

Phil, I'm probably the only guy here that has sprayed paint longer than you and I can tell you that, using the same materials for the last 20 years in the same location, I've never sprayed an entire car without orange peel until I used the Sagola 4400 gun. Now I've probably used 20 or more guns in that time but I haven't used the latest Sata RPs but I doubt that they can do a paint job better than the 4400. As far as cheap guns go some are impossible to get a good job out of but, for most people, they will get a paint job that will be comparable to the money they spend on tools and materials.

Snafu
05-20-2011, 12:34 PM
Is the 4400 hvlp?

Len
05-20-2011, 04:50 PM
Is the 4400 hvlp?

No it's an "RP" a compliant gun.

Len
05-20-2011, 04:51 PM
Is the 4400 hvlp?

No it's an "RP" a compliant gun. That's why it atomizes so well.

Snafu
05-20-2011, 05:46 PM
How is the fan pattern compared to the Plus gun?

Len
05-20-2011, 05:50 PM
How is the fan pattern compared to the Plus gun?

It's wider than the Plus gun.

sagola-spain
05-21-2011, 04:30 AM
ANY spray gun will spray a perfect job under optimal conditions. Hell a $25 Harbor Freight job will spray a glass smooth perfect paint job under optimal conditions. What set me off was Mr. Sagola insinuated that everyone can expect perfect paint jobs with Sagola spray guns EVERY time. Here is a quote from Sagola " Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and thatīs all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done". (end quote). What he is insinuating is Sagola spray guns are "the proper tool, and thats all" required to get a perfect paint job every time. He should have ended that with " in the hands of a well trained, well experienced expert professional painter under optimal conditions. (but he didn't). Some kid in podunk Iowa reads "Nobody around here does that, just two coats of good quality HS clear, the proper tool, and thatīs all, no sanding, no buffing, spray it, dry it, done" and thinks " Wow, with a gun like that I can start painting cars and every job will come out perfect in my barn using a 25 year old 20 gallon sears air compressor". My point is this site is basically geared to novices with little or no experience doing body work and paint work who come here for good advice from people who ARE experienced body men and painters. Novice painters can almost certainly NOT expect the same results that Mr. Sagola stated. Sagola guns probably are good guns and it helps to keep in mind that Sagola Paint Gun Company pays this guy to portray their spray guns in the best light. He should also have ended his statement with " your experiences may vary " (which for a novice painter is a given).

Phil, I respect you, and I am surprised of reading this, I had to read it few times before to reply, trying to be objetive, and after the fourth... I agree with you. Surprised?

Could what I said be confusing for some people? it could, was that the purpose? no

What I said: HERE cut and buff is not part of the standard process, and I keep it. And it was not a joke... come if you can and ask.

What I did not said: everything else.


Phil, I do not insinuate, never, some people do, and it is ok, but not me, I am crystal clear, I tell what I have to tell, not two faces or hidden intentions, of course we do not know each other, had not the opportunity to have a beer or dinner, so there is no reason you can know what kind of person I am. It is ok, I can understand your reaction, and that is why I will try to be perfectly clear this time:

HERE, a painted car must be a finished car, if not (sometimes something happens) you are losing money, so the objetive for all bodyshops, working with sagola... working with SATA, working with DEVILBISS, working with IWATA... working with ANY named spray gun, is always finish the car after painting, no sanding. EVERYBODY here is capable of this? no, but most. Is this the objetive for ALL them, yes.


"Sagola Paint Gun Company pays this guy to portray their spray guns in the best light"

I knew that using the company name as my user name could cause this kind of situation, would be much better to just named me "Tony", and try to focus people in my product, share false experiences about how good it is, register few different users and "make them talk together" about my products... as some people do, and you can see perfectly sometimes in some forums.

But no, I told you, I am clear, I am part of this company, not hidding that, I am here with two objetives in mind; support the people that wants information about the product we do, and learn about the needs of the people... the "voice of the people"... we do not make the guns we want, we make the guns the painters need, and for that... you have to listen to the painters.

Sorry, nobody pays me to be here, nobody is asking me to sell guns here, or try to change peoples mind, or anything like that. Have you read any of my previous post? have I tried to sell a gun to someone? Have I told anything bad about any other gun? I do not think so.

I am not a dealer, I am not a salesman, I am not a bored accountant in his desk, you have direct line with the company, to ask for support, to ask for the products, to know them better if you want, if you do not I will not bother you anyway. I would kill to have something like that sometines :(

If you all think that you do not want it, and you prefer me not to be here as sagola-spain, no problem, I will ask Len to erase the account, I will register another user, as "robert for spain", or "teddie from kentucky", who knows, and you can send your request, if you have any, directly to sagola@sagola.com.


I prefer to think that here I am helping people that can not reach us, and have interest in our products, with first hand information, and that is why I am using this user name, to be easy to find. Not to be hidden trying to manipulate others.

sagola-spain
05-21-2011, 04:34 AM
Is the 4400 hvlp?


It can be what you want it to be.

There are different aircaps, the one Len has is the one we recommend for clear (RXT02+), I think he has also the waterborne aircap (Aqua+), there is also a HVLP aircap (RXT03) if you want it or need it. For me there is no need in most of the cases, I use it sometimes, but unless you MUST use HVLP for some reason... the others can do the job perfectly.

Snafu
05-21-2011, 09:29 AM
We would all love to never have to at least dudt nib again. Its very rare that I dont have to at least dust nib something. But a sprayed car is NOT a finished car. It has to be assembled:)

sagola-spain
05-21-2011, 09:37 AM
We would all love to never have to at least dudt nib again. Its very rare that I dont have to at least dust nib something. But a sprayed car is NOT a finished car. It has to be assembled:)

Ok ok... you are right... ;)

Phil V
05-21-2011, 09:25 PM
Phil, I respect you, and I am surprised of reading this, I had to read it few times before to reply, trying to be objetive, and after the fourth... I agree with you. Surprised?

Could what I said be confusing for some people? it could, was that the purpose? no

What I said: HERE cut and buff is not part of the standard process, and I keep it. And it was not a joke... come if you can and ask.

What I did not said: everything else.


Phil, I do not insinuate, never, some people do, and it is ok, but not me, I am crystal clear, I tell what I have to tell, not two faces or hidden intentions, of course we do not know each other, had not the opportunity to have a beer or dinner, so there is no reason you can know what kind of person I am. It is ok, I can understand your reaction, and that is why I will try to be perfectly clear this time:

HERE, a painted car must be a finished car, if not (sometimes something happens) you are losing money, so the objetive for all bodyshops, working with sagola... working with SATA, working with DEVILBISS, working with IWATA... working with ANY named spray gun, is always finish the car after painting, no sanding. EVERYBODY here is capable of this? no, but most. Is this the objetive for ALL them, yes.


"Sagola Paint Gun Company pays this guy to portray their spray guns in the best light"

I knew that using the company name as my user name could cause this kind of situation, would be much better to just named me "Tony", and try to focus people in my product, share false experiences about how good it is, register few different users and "make them talk together" about my products... as some people do, and you can see perfectly sometimes in some forums.

But no, I told you, I am clear, I am part of this company, not hidding that, I am here with two objetives in mind; support the people that wants information about the product we do, and learn about the needs of the people... the "voice of the people"... we do not make the guns we want, we make the guns the painters need, and for that... you have to listen to the painters.

Sorry, nobody pays me to be here, nobody is asking me to sell guns here, or try to change peoples mind, or anything like that. Have you read any of my previous post? have I tried to sell a gun to someone? Have I told anything bad about any other gun? I do not think so.

I am not a dealer, I am not a salesman, I am not a bored accountant in his desk, you have direct line with the company, to ask for support, to ask for the products, to know them better if you want, if you do not I will not bother you anyway. I would kill to have something like that sometines :(

If you all think that you do not want it, and you prefer me not to be here as sagola-spain, no problem, I will ask Len to erase the account, I will register another user, as "robert for spain", or "teddie from kentucky", who knows, and you can send your request, if you have any, directly to sagola@sagola.com.


I prefer to think that here I am helping people that can not reach us, and have interest in our products, with first hand information, and that is why I am using this user name, to be easy to find. Not to be hidden trying to manipulate others.


That was a good post and I appreciate how you handled it. It was clear, concise and to the point. For whatever its worth I do have more respect for you and for the Sagola spray gun. Apparently Len thinks highly of the spray gun so says a lot to me. No more of my cranky old man posts about you and Sagola spray guns. Apparently I need to try one of the Sagola guns. Based on my past experiences using other guns its rare that a full paint job in BC/CC is done right out of the gun (no cutting and buffing). Maybe Sagola does have a "better mousetrap". ( if you don't understand the last part I will explain it to you, its a good thing and it may not be a saying used in Spain).

sagola-spain
05-22-2011, 12:13 AM
I apreciate that you understand my point Phil, I never wanted to confuse anyone.

Yes, give it a try if you have the opportunity, not something "out of this world", and probably not the best one, but is it a good tool, and we make all them as if they were unique. Remember that this is not a huge corporation, just a small family company, not looking for big numbes, always looking for quality over anything else, your quality is your name, you can not play with that.





P.S-You are right, we do not use that expresion here, "mousetrap"...

Snafu
05-22-2011, 09:20 AM
I am a sceptic when it comes to guns. I have not purchased a single gun that I thought was as good as I was led to believe it was. Not a top coat gun anyway

Mooch
05-22-2011, 09:36 AM
I am a sceptic when it comes to guns. I have not purchased a single gun that I thought was as good as I was led to believe it was. Not a top coat gun anyway

Snafu my man ,it sounds like just maybe you aren't quite as good as you think you are .

Or maybe you have been buying cheap guns thinking they are good enough .

Mooch

Phil V
05-22-2011, 10:19 AM
I apreciate that you understand my point Phil, I never wanted to confuse anyone.

Yes, give it a try if you have the opportunity, not something "out of this world", and probably not the best one, but is it a good tool, and we make all them as if they were unique. Remember that this is not a huge corporation, just a small family company, not looking for big numbes, always looking for quality over anything else, your quality is your name, you can not play with that.



P.S-You are right, we do not use that expresion here, "mousetrap"...

There is an old say that goes " build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door ". Maybe Sagola does have a better spray gun.

sagola-spain
05-22-2011, 12:03 PM
There is an old say that goes " build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door ". Maybe Sagola does have a better spray gun.


I like it, I will remember it.

Thank you.





P.D. - Maybe, but words are just words, I prefer people to just try it. After trying... not good enough for you? ok, thank you for trying, we will do our best to improve it. Good enough for you? ok, thank you for trying, we will do our best to improve it...

Snafu
05-22-2011, 03:48 PM
Snafu my man ,it sounds like just maybe you aren't quite as good as you think you are .

Or maybe you have been buying cheap guns thinking they are good enough .

Mooch

No sir. But I will not buy any more guns based on a few biased opinions. I will try before I buy

Len
05-22-2011, 05:52 PM
No sir. But I will not buy any more guns based on a few biased opinions. I will try before I buy

Tell us which guns you used and why you didn't like them.

recoatlift
06-14-2011, 06:33 PM
I recently read an article in Street Rodder - they sprayed 2 coats of clear - wet sanded with 800 -sprayed 2 more coats of clear - then continued with the normal sandpaper progression and polishing. They indicated that by doing this, they reduced the chance of orange peel buildup. Any thoughts? I am very close to spraying BC/CC - I purchased the Plus gun from Len and can't wait to use it. I've read - if the gun is adjusted properly, it should lay down a pretty smooth coat - Thanks.

if you want it to look like glass, it will need to be blocked down, buffed & polished. orange peel seems inherent to urethanes. but that is what makes street rods look so damn nice isn't it?

i was reading some posts & came away thinking, if the sagola [love the name!] leaves little to no texture, seems to me, you'd see the repair 'cuz of oem peel. i don't know, i just shoot 'em. good luck & post some picks!

ps. in the real world, you'd be losing $$$ if you had to buff. ain't no money in buffing.

Snafu
06-14-2011, 06:39 PM
if you want it to look like glass, it will need to be blocked down, buffed & polished. orange peel seems inherent to urethanes. but that is what makes street rods look so damn nice isn't it?

i was reading some posts & came away thinking, if the sagola [love the name!] leaves little to no texture, seems to me, you'd see the repair 'cuz of oem peel. i don't know, i just shoot 'em. good luck & post some picks!

ps. in the real world, you'd be losing $$$ if you had to buff. ain't no money in buffing.

I disagree. My work is way better than OE finish. Because I buff. It's as good before I buff. My paint is never less than the rest of the car. If it's a complete, it is a show finish

Silverado
06-02-2012, 01:21 PM
^^^ Huh?

Anyway, I'd love to try one of these. Working on getting the booth built first.