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ScottM
09-02-2010, 01:40 AM
So I've buffed out a few cars of my own and some that I sell on the side. I have been using sure finish with the orange pad. Most look pretty good. Well the other day I go to buff my 99 Black Eldorado and all seems good. It was pretty cloudy that day. I come out the next morning and with the Sun out in it's full luster and I see holograms all over it.:[ So I guess my technique is off. I usually go pretty slow on the buffer as to not dry out the Sure Finish. I do have experience with the buffer and a feel for it, but this was my first black car. So what are some steps I could take to improve on this to make them go away? I usually do about 18" sections at a time. My buffer is a Milwaukee heavy duty 7"/9" dual speed control polisher. It has speed setings 1-5. I usually go between 1-2. To much more than that seems to try the material out faster. I don't have to use much pressure since the unit is pretty heavy.

Len
09-02-2010, 06:52 AM
I usually start buffing using a slow speed and more pressure and when I'm done I switch to a softer (black foam) pad with less pressure at a higher speed. Other than that you'll need an orbital machine to finish the job.


Black Pad Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SFPADS&Category_Code=T2)

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/ND9900.jpg
Orbital Polisher Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ND9900&Category_Code=T2)

jack_davey
09-10-2010, 05:05 PM
Black will show up more defects that other colours and sometimes holograms are inevitable with cutting compounds, a finishing polish and a soft foam pad should get them out

style
09-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Black will show up more defects that other colours and sometimes holograms are inevitable with cutting compounds, a finishing polish and a soft foam pad should get them out

a finishing polish like 3ms black foam pad polish has fillers in it that fill in the swirl marks and hollograms use shure finish with a black foam pad at low speed and youll be fine as shure finish has no fillers..

tech69
09-14-2010, 02:16 PM
For black I like to sand with a higher grit before buffing. This makes the buffing easier and I don't apply pressure hardly at all on black. Slow for buffing faster for polish. If I have black I'll go 3 stage sometimes and use a finishing palm sander for swirl removal. In any case, getting out scratches and the pressure applied to buffing seems to be pretty important when doing black so I figured it ought to be mentioned.

CRC
10-11-2010, 01:55 PM
I have found that even polishes with no fillers can still leave swirls and halograms on black. My theory is that all compounds or compound/polishes have a lubricant in their chemistry to make the product work properly. (Without it you would have a bottle of sand!) Sure Finish is a favorite of mine, but I've had the same result on some blacks. The surface is fine for a day or two and then very light swirls show up. It seems there is some residue left from the polish that doesn't wipe off completely, and after it dries or evaporates the problems appear. To be sure I have a swirl free finish I now do a wipedown of a small area with surface cleaner. If its not perfect I go over everything rather quickly with a DA and an orange or white pad to correct it.

Len
10-11-2010, 03:35 PM
I have found that even polishes with no fillers can still leave swirls and halograms on black. My theory is that all compounds or compound/polishes have a lubricant in their chemistry to make the product work properly. (Without it you would have a bottle of sand!) Sure Finish is a favorite of mine, but I've had the same result on some blacks. The surface is fine for a day or two and then very light swirls show up. It seems there is some residue left from the polish that doesn't wipe off completely, and after it dries or evaporates the problems appear. To be sure I have a swirl free finish I now do a wipedown of a small area with surface cleaner. If its not perfect I go over everything rather quickly with a DA and an orange or white pad to correct it.

In most cases the polish is only one element that contributes to swirls and other surface imperfections. The pad characteristics and mostly the ACTION of the buffer are major contributing factors to swirl generation. If you use a wool pad the chances are that you'll get swirls but the wool pads cut faster and when you start buffing they may be best for removing coarse sanding scratches but as you progress it's usually foam that generates less swirl marks. Foam pad can create less swirls but, like the wool pads, it depends on the characteristics of the pad. About the only way to finish a polishing project without swirls or fillers is to use a "forced rotation" orbital machine. I don't sell these at the moment but I just got a Makita B6040 that is made for this purpose but I haven't used it yet. Instead of being a rotary the 6040 rotates and goes back and forth at the same time to eliminate swirls. An orbital sander equipped with a polishing pad can help eliminate swirls but it's not really very good at this job and it can take a long time.

CRC
10-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Len I'm glad to hear you bought a 6040! It's a great machine and does an excellent job but I found there's a definite learning curve to use it properly. It wants to "walk" in different directions than you intend, and will grab & tend to jump if the pad gets too dry. I found that I could control it better by holding the head with my right hand and the base with my left. Press down with moderate pressure and tilt very slightly into your direction as you make your passes. Roberts video makes it look so easy! I'd be interested in your experience.