Compressor piping question

[flyboyjuge]

Ok guys I searched but didnt find a clear answer. I just downgraded to a 30 gallon compressor. the husky vt6315 to be exact and will only be painting small parts. a hood at the largest. motorcycle parts mostly. I live in a rental house. Do i need plumbing to keep water out, or is there something else I can do. for a small 30 gallon, I hate to get all overkill with my piping. I like the compressor because it is mobile. Any advice is appreciated. I have been using just an inline filter right at the gun. no water or oil....yet. thanks guys. and as always Surefinish is the best!!! Julian

[slyhog22056]

your easiest and cheapest way would be to run the air from your 30 gallon tank through 25 to 50 foot of hose or piping into the side of a smaller tank (5 or 10 gallon) then pull your supply off of that tank from the top of it. the hose or piping will cool and condense most of the moisture and let it settle in the smaller tank unless you just flat out draw the smaller tank, with what you are doing i think you would be alright. just keep the smaller tank bled of moisture quite often. if you have more seperators include them anywhere in the system but make sure you have one on your last hose section for sure.

[flyboyjuge]

I was at home depot today and it showed diagrams of just 50 foot hose coming out of compressor into a filter then another 50 foot of hose then the tool. would this fight moisture at all? a long way for air to travel but does air hose rid moisture at all?

[BradNes1]

rubber hose is not going to cool the air very well. Plus with 100 feet of 3/8" air hose I would be worried about a pretty good pressure drop as well. You'd be better off running 25' of black iron pipe (at least 1/2"), put a water seperator at the end, and then not worry about it. That amount of pipe will be super cheap.

[flyboyjuge]

I agree with the Black iron pipe but with it being a rental home, i cant really get too in depth with it. if i did a shorter length with a more bends as in up then down then up then down, do you think that would work?

[MARTINSR]

Rubber hose holds the heat and the moisture, you want as SHORT a hose as possible. But you want this hose AFTER the air has cooled, that is the basic idea. Cool the air with piping away from the compressor. Piping that is blocked away from the wall so air can get around it. Then after that air has cooled, you have as short a hose as you need to get the job done. That is it in theory, however you can do it, that is basics.

A set up like this, is the perfect garage piping.
http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe.nsf/images/pipe-layout-1.gif/$File/pipe-layout-1.gif

Getting as close as you can to this is the best. But we can't always do it perfectly, so you get close. I have a simple set up like this in my garage with only one outlet at the end, with a water separator there.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

I agree with the Black iron pipe but with it being a rental home, i cant really get too in depth with it. if i did a shorter length with a more bends as in up then down then up then down, do you think that would work?


If you put them up and down, the water is going to be trapped at the lower end and restrict air.

Brian

[flyboyjuge]

even if i put petcocks at the bottom? it sounds like piping out of the compressor sloping upward has the best effect. would 10 to 15 feet of piping be enough? like i said i dont wanna get too crazy with it being in a rental house

[Len]

Brian's arrangement is great for a large shop but for the average DIYer it's a little over the top. If you can run one pipe up the wall then around the room and drop it down to your filter regulator you'll be fine. As the pipe goes around the room have it on an incline so that the condensed moisture runs back to the compressor where you can drain it regularly. If it's a temporary arrangement you can use PVC because it's quick and easy to install but you need the high pressure PVC and it should be all above eye level so that it won't get hit with tools or anything else and if it explodes it won't blow into your face. I used PVC for 20 years before it blew but when it did it blew plastic all over the shop. Lucky no body was hurt.

[flyboyjuge]

Thanks Len, I believe I will stay away from PVC. I like to save a penny but when it comes to safety I will pay a bit more for pipe. Do you think I will get a lot of moisture on a 30 gal for just painting small parts? Im in Albuquerque NM by the way.

[MARTINSR]

If you run a hose off the tank you WILL get moisture, if not straight water coming out. Especially after it cycles a few times and warms up the tank and air.

The closer to the "Best" way you can get, the "bestest" if you will, should be your target to provide you with the best air supply at your gun. The best volume, the cleanest you can get is what you are after. As Len said, the diagram posted is a pie in the sky for a home hobbyist. But getting a little closer or as close as you can get is the way to go.

I thought I would go out into my garage and take a few photos of my setup. This is miles from the "Best" but it is as "Bestest" as I thought I needed and could do with my garage size and money and all that balanced out.

As the line leaves the compressor it goes up the wall to the lowest point in the system.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3738.jpg

Here is the flex pipe I used to join the compressor to the pipes. It's from a large aircraft hydraulic system that I got at an aircraft "wrecking yard". I don't imagine I will have a problem with it breaking. :raspberry:

You will also notice a ball valve at the tank. This works nice to shut the tank off storying air being there is often some leak here or there. I have a small one and over a week the air will bleed out. With the valve it will be there forever.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3749.jpg

The flex looking down from the top.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3743.jpg


To be cont:

[MARTINSR]

Here it runs down the wall.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3739.jpg

The entire thing is set on wood blocks to allow air to go around the pipe keeping it cool.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3744.jpg


It runs down the wall to over the garage door.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3745.jpg

Forgive the spots in the photo. I should have turned the overhead lights off.

To be cont:

[MARTINSR]

Here it is going over the garage door and down to the outlet and water trap.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3747.jpg

Here is a close up of the last leg along with the water trap and outlet. You will also see another ball valve at the end to drain it.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3742.jpg

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Being it is a rental, may or may not change much. How long do you plan on staying? You can build a set up similar to this in an afternoon as I did and take it with you!

You can make it sort of generic and literally take it with you to your next garage just as you will with all your tools.

Mine in particular is custom fit so I had to have on piece cut at the hardware store and re-threaded to fit just perfect. But just grabbing pieces off the shelf and screwing it together doesn't take a whole lot of time and doesn't cost a whole lot either.

You will also notice I used 3/4" (or is it 1", I forget), don't use 1/2" it isn't big enough for the VOLUME of air needed.

Brian

PS: In the very first photo you can also see my "Garage God" who watches over me on the shelf above the compressor. :D

[flyboyjuge]

Thanks Brian. That is very helpful. So even if i have just a 30 gallon, 1/2 pipe wouldn't be enough? I do agree now, and since its temporary, i'll run about 25' and a filter at the end. Now the hard part, have the wife approve. Thanks everybody

[Bob K]

In the very first photo you can also see my "Garage God" who watches over me on the shelf above the compressor. :D

For new “garage god” I nominate the one below the shelf and to the right.

Nice air layout. If I didn’t have a bunch of irons in the fire this month, I would be tempted to do a copy of that this afternoon.

Bob K

[MARTINSR]

Thanks Brian. That is very helpful. So even if i have just a 30 gallon, 1/2 pipe wouldn't be enough? I do agree now, and since its temporary, i'll run about 25' and a filter at the end. Now the hard part, have the wife approve. Thanks everybody


You're adding volume with the larger pipe! It's almost like enlarging the tank, you can't go wrong. Go price it out, this stuff is pretty cheap. I just plumbed my bathroom and used about six small pieces of brass pipe, now THAT stuff costs, holy crap.

Brian

[flyboyjuge]

Brian, did you use galvanized or black iron pipe? Totally makes sense, bigger pipe=more capacity

[MARTINSR]

Brian, did you use galvanized or black iron pipe? Totally makes sense, bigger pipe=more capacity

Galvanized, NEVER use black. Black is for gases and will rust with anything that could contain water, like compressed air.


Brian

[MARTINSR]

For new “garage god” I nominate the one below the shelf and to the right.

Nice air layout. If I didn’t have a bunch of irons in the fire this month, I would be tempted to do a copy of that this afternoon.

Bob K

When it comes to females, my "God" is my wonderful wife that encourages me to do the stuff I do and have my "Mans room" full of my toys and memories.

Brian

[flyboyjuge]

does it not flake off on the inside of the pipe? but if it did, i imagine the filter would catch it anyway...i would hope so anyway.

[MARTINSR]

does it not flake off on the inside of the pipe? but if it did, i imagine the filter would catch it anyway...i would hope so anyway.


Nope, and yes any filter would catch it. But black pipe WILL rust and is made for natural gas.

Brian

[flyboyjuge]

wow, i didnt even think to look at galvanized the other day. Isnt it cheaper than black?

[Kent]

I need something to set up in my pick up. I was going to get 50ft of 5/8" coiled copper tubing to hook up to my compressor and then put a dessicant dryer before my hose reel. I was just going to leave the tubing coiled and set it behind the compressor. No good for a mobile situation?

[BradNes1]

wow, i didnt even think to look at galvanized the other day. Isnt it cheaper than black?

Galvanized is definately the better route to go. It's a little more expensive than black iron but not much. I run a system that is VERY similar to Brian's and it has worked well for me.

[MARTINSR]

I need something to set up in my pick up. I was going to get 50ft of 5/8" coiled copper tubing to hook up to my compressor and then put a dessicant dryer before my hose reel. I was just going to leave the tubing coiled and set it behind the compressor. No good for a mobile situation?

What are you going to be doing out of your truck that has to be real nice? Are you painting?

Brian

[Kent]

Yes sir, I do mobile paint repair. I am kind of considering going with a turbine system but keeping a small compressor for the occasional air tool and blow gun. Any thoughts on the turbine systems?

[MARTINSR]

Yes sir, I do mobile paint repair. I am kind of considering going with a turbine system but keeping a small compressor for the occasional air tool and blow gun. Any thoughts on the turbine systems?


I know absolutely nothing about them, but you are in luck Len has used them and knows a lot drop him a note. Or better yet post a new thread so we can all learn.:D

Brian

[tech69]

Here it is going over the garage door and down to the outlet and water trap.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3747.jpg

Here is a close up of the last leg along with the water trap and outlet. You will also see another ball valve at the end to drain it.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa167/BasicsofBasics/Tools/DSCF3742.jpg

Brian

I see who's wearing the pants in your family! Nice! I was searching around for a set up for a small shop and these photos are helpful. Should there be a three stage filter system at the end for paint??? you garage god you!!!

[Len]

I see who's wearing the pants in your family! Nice! I was searching around for a set up for a small shop and these photos are helpful. Should there be a three stage filter system at the end for paint??? you garage god you!!!

If you have a good size compressor that isn't overworked and you pipe your air properly you can usually get away without a three stage filter.

[MARTINSR]

I see who's wearing the pants in your family! Nice! I was searching around for a set up for a small shop and these photos are helpful. Should there be a three stage filter system at the end for paint??? you garage god you!!!

I have talked a lot about my set up and I figured it was time I had some photos to post.

Glad they could be of help.

Brian

[Dave C]

Just as an FYI, from a renter who also paints outdoors. I can't justify a stationary indoor compressor with hard piping to the outside. I paint motorcycles in my back yard, at the mercy of Mother Nature.

Here's what works for me...

Upright 25 gal compressor (12 ga extension cord, 20A breaker).
25 ft of rubber hose coiled up into a styrofoam cooler.
Crushed ice poured over the hose.
Water separator and filter after the rubber hose.
25 ft of 3/8 hose to my gun, plastic disposable filter at the inlet.

The ice bucket condenses moisture in the rubber hose so it'll get trapped by the separator. Cheap and portable, works well even in the humid New England summer.

Setup and teardown of the equipment adds time to the day.. but I manage.

Dave

[silentdub]

http://autobodystore.com/forum/showthread.php?19083-Plumbing-New-Air-lines&highlight=

thats my set up. Get a smaller receiver tank.


I ran it wide open for 2 hours blasting and no water!

[drizler]

http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

This is the diagram TIP shows to lay out a shop. Simplify it some and use 3/4" copper soldered with good old 50/50 solder to make the joints. That should make it easy to take with you when you leave. I have used one for 10 or so years and it works fine. The big feature is the veritcal drops to catch and drain water that has condensed in the pipe. Mine works fine with only one water filter at the end before the 30' hose coming from it to the gun. It works well but doesn't catch every single drop on the hot humid days.