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Choppers_rule
04-28-2010, 03:33 PM
How abrasive is Sure Finish? Aggresive/ Medium/ low?
Thank you.

88GT
04-28-2010, 04:15 PM
my one experience.....very low abrasive
HOWEVER, it was said that I got a bad batch

Robert
04-28-2010, 06:11 PM
If you expect it to work like the typical rocks in a bottle it's not going to cut very fast. On the other hand, if you season the pad with enough to provide good coverage then only use enough to keep the pad lightly wet but not enough for the material to slurry around it will cut pretty fast.

It cuts faster with a wool pad then progressively finer as you use softer pads.

Henry
04-29-2010, 09:54 AM
How abrasive is Sure Finish? Aggresive/ Medium/ low?
Thank you.

Your question is tricky with Sure Finish. If you rub it between your finger you do NOT feel the sandy grit like some other compounds - yet it will COMPOUND with a good wool pad in short order. Maybe I could answer like this:

Aggresive: used with good wool pad

Medium: used with Roberts 'orange' hard foam pad

Low: used with a soft black foam pad

Your question is tough to answer as asked. Will it act as a compoud - YES; will it act as a polish or glaze - YES.

Hope this helped.

IMPORTANT NOTE: if you think you ever received a "bad batch" all you need to do is contact Robert or Len. They will make it right. CHOOSING to follow through with their offers of correctiveness is UP TO YOU. If you DO NOT followup then that's on you.

Henry

Choppers_rule
04-29-2010, 01:05 PM
Cool...that answer my question because I don't plan to take too much material when I'm ready to detail my car.
Sounds like a great product since you can use it as a compound, polish/ glaze depending on your pads.
I will order one when I have extra change soon.
Thank you.

88GT
04-29-2010, 01:10 PM
Your question is tricky with Sure Finish. If you rub it between your finger you do NOT feel the sandy grit like some other compounds - yet it will COMPOUND with a good wool pad in short order. Maybe I could answer like this:

Aggresive: used with good wool pad

Medium: used with Roberts 'orange' hard foam pad

Low: used with a soft black foam pad

Your question is tough to answer as asked. Will it act as a compoud - YES; will it act as a polish or glaze - YES.

Hope this helped.

IMPORTANT NOTE: if you think you ever received a "bad batch" all you need to do is contact Robert or Len. They will make it right. CHOOSING to follow through with their offers of correctiveness is UP TO YOU. If you DO NOT followup then that's on you.Henry

I did just that. I got a full refund. IIRC I didnt have to pay to ship it back either. I never once complained about services. Service has always been top notch.

Len
04-29-2010, 02:20 PM
I did just that. I got a full refund. IIRC I didnt have to pay to ship it back either. I never once complained about services. Service has always been top notch.

As far as "bad batch" goes we've probably sold a thousand gallons of Sure Finish and the only complaint we had was yours so those bad batches are few and far between. However, with that said, Sure Finish works a little different than other compounds and if you use it like 3M or other popular compounds it won't perform as well.

LS6
04-30-2010, 12:54 AM
The problem with the more aggressive compounds is ....... while they may cut more aggressively to remove heavier sand scratches, they will surely introduce their own grade of scratches.
You are then faced with the problem of removing the scratches caused by the more aggressive " Rocks in a Bottle " compound.

It's far better to color sand PROPERLY through the various stages. If you take care of that, by the time you get around to buffing, Sure - Finish with the CORRECT PAD SEQUENCE will more than do the job and it will actually be easy.
That's the real secret!
LS6

88GT
04-30-2010, 12:14 PM
The problem with the more aggressive compounds is ....... while they may cut more aggressively to remove heavier sand scratches, they will surely introduce their own grade of scratches.
You are then faced with the problem of removing the scratches caused by the more aggressive " Rocks in a Bottle " compound.

It's far better to color sand PROPERLY through the various stages. If you take care of that, by the time you get around to buffing, Sure - Finish with the CORRECT PAD SEQUENCE will more than do the job and it will actually be easy.
That's the real secret!
LS6

ok, I wont comment on the bottle of rocks exageration. Were all smarter than that.
Anywho, I see it like this. I use 80 grit to remove 40 grit scratches, 150 to remove 80 grit scratches, 180 to remove 150 scratches and so on. To me, sure finish is like starting your filler shaping with 150. And I dont mean the filler that sands quite well with 80.
As for the compounds, Im all for finding something better, or as good as 3M for a lower price. BUT, Im not unhappy with the product. 3M is starting to piss me off because of greed. (different topic all together) Compound is the same to me as the sand paper. A coarse compound will remove 3000 scratches and leave a pretty good shine. Even if you use it by hand it still polishes. Will SF do that? So anyway, lets say the compound removes the 3000 scratch but leaves a 6000 grit scratch. Follow up with a finer swirl remover type product that removes the 6000 scratches and leaves a scratch so fine its virtually undetectible. I can polish a large pannel in about an hour and a half with 3M. No way could I do that with SF from my personal experience. That includes color sanding with 1500 and 3000

Len
04-30-2010, 12:58 PM
ok, I wont comment on the bottle of rocks exageration. Were all smarter than that.
Anywho, I see it like this. I use 80 grit to remove 40 grit scratches, 150 to remove 80 grit scratches, 180 to remove 150 scratches and so on. To me, sure finish is like starting your filler shaping with 150. And I dont mean the filler that sands quite well with 80.
As for the compounds, Im all for finding something better, or as good as 3M for a lower price. BUT, Im not unhappy with the product. 3M is starting to piss me off because of greed. (different topic all together) Compound is the same to me as the sand paper. A coarse compound will remove 3000 scratches and leave a pretty good shine. Even if you use it by hand it still polishes. Will SF do that? So anyway, lets say the compound removes the 3000 scratch but leaves a 6000 grit scratch. Follow up with a finer swirl remover type product that removes the 6000 scratches and leaves a scratch so fine its virtually undetectible. I can polish a large pannel in about an hour and a half with 3M. No way could I do that with SF from my personal experience. That includes color sanding with 1500 and 3000

We use nothing but Sure Finish and we find that it will remove 3000 Trizact scratches almost instantly. Once we get the painted surface sanded with 3000 Trizact there's almost no work to finish the polishing with SF. We also sell and have 3M compound and Presta Ultra Cutting Cream but it's rarely used.

88GT
04-30-2010, 01:58 PM
My jobber carries some ??Farcla??. Dennish mentioned that stuff, but that too, I hear, means I need to scrap everything I have, and know about polishing and start over. Maybe Norton makes something similar to the 3M stuff. They seem to be good competition. I use quite a bit of Norton products. I hate having to learn to walk again.

LS6
04-30-2010, 05:25 PM
ok, I wont comment on the bottle of rocks exageration. Were all smarter than that.
Anywho, I see it like this. I use 80 grit to remove 40 grit scratches, 150 to remove 80 grit scratches, 180 to remove 150 scratches and so on. To me, sure finish is like starting your filler shaping with 150. And I dont mean the filler that sands quite well with 80.
As for the compounds, Im all for finding something better, or as good as 3M for a lower price. BUT, Im not unhappy with the product. 3M is starting to piss me off because of greed. (different topic all together) Compound is the same to me as the sand paper. A coarse compound will remove 3000 scratches and leave a pretty good shine. Even if you use it by hand it still polishes. Will SF do that? So anyway, lets say the compound removes the 3000 scratch but leaves a 6000 grit scratch. Follow up with a finer swirl remover type product that removes the 6000 scratches and leaves a scratch so fine its virtually undetectible. I can polish a large pannel in about an hour and a half with 3M. No way could I do that with SF from my personal experience. That includes color sanding with 1500 and 3000

A coarse compound will remove 3000 scratches and more than likely, put in deeper scratches, depending on what your idea is concerning a coarse compound? If you so desire, you could use 3M Perfect-it -II fine cut rubbing compound before the Sure - Finish, but anything more aggressive than the 3M Perfect-it-II should not be necessary, if your wet sanding procedure was on target? If you skip a step, you can leave deeper underlying scratches.
Sure - Finish can easily remove 3000 scratches. Any polish that can't remove a 3000 scratch is worthless.
Let me ask this............. Are you SURE that even though you are attempting to cut out a 3000 scratch, that you don't have a deeper UNDERLYING scratch under the 3000 that wasn't removed with the previous wet sand operation?
If you skip steps, it will come back to bite you.

GT, your last comment says " That includes color sanding with 1500 and 3000. "

I take that to mean you ONLY color sand with those 2 grits? If that's true, then there is your problem.
For a swirl remover ( especially a black car) Presta swirl remover with a black foam pad is good. Also, Menzerna Micro - polish or Menzerna PO -106 FF with a black foam pad is an excellent swirl removal product.

Just below, I have taken the liberty to post a former response on this subject by Dennis Schmidt.
Maybe Dennis will chime in on this thread ? Dennis is very knowledgeable.

Dennis starts here.......................

" Once again I stray off topic but this is important. Buffing should take a very short period of time. You should never have to buff long enough to cut through clear and base to bare metal. "

" If you're not progressing with buffing out the problem is: "

1) You haven't sanded properly or long enough.
2) Your compound isn't cutting.
3) Your pad (which when you start the process should be wool) isn't aggressive enough.

If you can't get a finished gloss on a 2 X 2 foot panel after 5 minutes something is wrong.

Here's how to do it right.

Start the color sand with P800 dry on a DA or P1000 wet by hand. This should remove most of the peel. Don't continue long enough to remove all of the peel just knock off the tops. You'll need that clear to remove the P800 scratches. THIS IS THE CRUCIAL FIRST STEP and sets the table for the rest of the process.

Switch over to P1200 dry on a random orbit or P1500 wet by hand. This you continue to use until the peel is gone.

Continue on with P1500 dry on a random orbit or P2000 wet by hand. The only purpose is to refine the previous scratch.

If you've go P3000 Trizact use it on a random orbit wet if not P2500 by hand. The paint should be getting pretty shinny by now.

Start your buffing with wool and an alumina based compound. Sure-Finish works well, others make suitable products as well. Do all cutting with this step. Almost all of the buffing time is consumed during this step. Any defects are removed during this step. If you see a defect during this step you SAND the defect out with P1200 followed by P2000 and buff off the resulting scratches NOT THE ACTUAL DEFECT. This is the biggest screw up most people make and where burn throughs happen when somebody thinks that they can buff out a defect. You sand out defects you buff out the fine sanding scratches left from the sandpaper which has removed the defect.

Remove the swirls with foam. This should be very, very fast. Less than a minute on a 2 X 2 foot area needed if you did everything else right.

EVERYBODY STARTS BUFFING TOO SOON WHEN THEY START OUT. Sand more, buff less.

LS6 :)

88GT
04-30-2010, 09:00 PM
my problem is cutting with 1500 and then 3000? Ummm, I never even said I have a problem. Ive been polishing like this for years. Well, I was just turned on to the trizact 3000 just a couple years ago. Ive polished probably the equivelent of 50 complete cars with my method. I think I got it pretty well figured out.

LS6
04-30-2010, 10:50 PM
my problem is cutting with 1500 and then 3000? Ummm, I never even said I have a problem. Ive been polishing like this for years. Well, I was just turned on to the trizact 3000 just a couple years ago. Ive polished probably the equivelent of 50 complete cars with my method. I think I got it pretty well figured out.

So then, your first cut is with 1500 and your second and final cut is with 3000. After that, you polish?
LS6

Len
04-30-2010, 11:05 PM
So then, your first cut is with 1500 and your second and final cut is with 3000. After that, you polish?
LS6

That's pretty much what I do. I find that the 3000 Trizact will remove the 1500 scratch pretty quickly the the Sure Finish removes the 3000 scratch in a flash. If I want to cut the panel perfectly flat I will sometimes start sanding with 1000 grit on a hard pad but that's unusual.

LS6
04-30-2010, 11:24 PM
That's pretty much what I do. I find that the 3000 Trizact will remove the 1500 scratch pretty quickly the the Sure Finish removes the 3000 scratch in a flash. If I want to cut the panel perfectly flat I will sometimes start sanding with 1000 grit on a hard pad but that's unusual.

Len,
How do you sand with the 3000 Trizact? Wet sand by hand or dry with the Airvantage?
LS6

88GT
05-01-2010, 07:58 AM
Len,
How do you sand with the 3000 Trizact? Wet sand by hand or dry with the Airvantage?
LS6

The only trizact I know of is used on a machine with a tiny bit of water. Is there a trizact that is used on a "block"?

Len
05-01-2010, 08:12 AM
Len,
How do you sand with the 3000 Trizact? Wet sand by hand or dry with the Airvantage?
LS6

In most cases I sand wet with my AirVantage. I spray the panel I'm sanding with a pump (trigger) sprayer while I'm sanding. I also use 3" disks on a Run Blocker if I need to sand a small spot.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/3m2077.jpg
3" Trizact Disks Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M2077&Category_Code=M3)

LS6
05-01-2010, 06:47 PM
GT,
I made the presumption that you were trying cut out ALL of the peel. After Len posted the same sanding steps as you, I realized that you guys are just striving to emulate factory paint ( with some peel ) and not trying to cut and polish to a show car type finish.

I stand corrected.
LS6

88GT
05-01-2010, 07:30 PM
GT,
I made the presumption that you were trying cut out ALL of the peel. After Len posted the same sanding steps as you, I realized that you guys are just striving to emulate factory paint ( with some peel ) and not trying to cut and polish to a show car type finish.

I stand corrected.
LS6

I do cut all the peel. My paint matches factory pretty good right out of the gun. Do I block sand my paint? Only to block out a run, and yes, I do show car work. You may be under the assumption that you have to use a hard block by hand to get a show car job. Not so

LS6
05-03-2010, 05:14 PM
I do cut all the peel. My paint matches factory pretty good right out of the gun. Do I block sand my paint? Only to block out a run, and yes, I do show car work. You may be under the assumption that you have to use a hard block by hand to get a show car job. Not so

GT,
You can cut a lot of the peel out by starting with 1500, but I don't think that you can remove all of the peel with the 1500?
I do believe that with the 3000 afterward and the proper buffing materials you can get an excellent shine. However, unless you can spray an get almost no orange peel, 1500 is not going to be strong enough to cut through all of the peel and give you a dead flat show car shine.
Just my 2 cents LS6

88GT
05-03-2010, 05:54 PM
GT,
You can cut a lot of the peel out by starting with 1500, but I don't think that you can remove all of the peel with the 1500?
I do believe that with the 3000 afterward and the proper buffing materials you can get an excellent shine. However, unless you can spray an get almost no orange peel, 1500 is not going to be strong enough to cut through all of the peel and give you a dead flat show car shine.
Just my 2 cents LS6

I CAN spray and get almost no orange peel. Any good painter can. What remains after I cut and buff my paint is not orange peel. Its refered to as urethane wave. My method of 1500 hookit and 3000 trizact has yet to leave one of my customers less than pleased with my work

Robert
05-03-2010, 07:10 PM
around here, it means no orange peel, no wave, no scratch, no swirl, so if you're using the term "show car finish" and it still has any of those things, then ....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58LpHBnvsI

Polish Painter
05-03-2010, 09:56 PM
I CAN spray and get almost no orange peel. Any good painter can. What remains after I cut and buff my paint is not orange peel. Its refered to as urethane wave. My method of 1500 hookit and 3000 trizact has yet to leave one of my customers less than pleased with my work

88GT , What spray gun do you use to apply clear ? Approx. PSI ?
Do you use SPI Universal clear ?

LS6
05-03-2010, 10:26 PM
I CAN spray and get almost no orange peel. Any good painter can. What remains after I cut and buff my paint is not orange peel. Its refered to as urethane wave. My method of 1500 hookit and 3000 trizact has yet to leave one of my customers less than pleased with my work

GT,
I'm sure that your work is excellent and very shiny. My objection was, that more color sanding preparation would be needed in order to achieve a flawless finish that would be devoid of any urethane wave, orange peel or swirls.

Of course if one were to take all jobs to that extreme, the painted area would be flatter than the factory finish, plus you wouldn't be able to make any money by spending so much time on each job. It is a bit different than a show car finish.
LS6 :)

LS6
05-03-2010, 10:37 PM
That's pretty much what I do. I find that the 3000 Trizact will remove the 1500 scratch pretty quickly the the Sure Finish removes the 3000 scratch in a flash. If I want to cut the panel perfectly flat I will sometimes start sanding with 1000 grit on a hard pad but that's unusual.

Len,
Which, in your opinion is better for initial color sanding, Trizact hookit-II 1500 discs or Trizact clear coat sanding discs P 1500?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
Thanks,
LS6 :)

Len
05-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Len,
Which, in your opinion is better for initial color sanding, Trizact hookit-II 1500 discs or Trizact clear coat sanding discs P 1500?
What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
Thanks,
LS6 :)

The only thing Hook-It II does for me is piss me off. There may be some fine point that I'm missing but, as far as I'm concerned, standard hook and loop Trizact works fine and II was a marketing ploy.

For guys that don't do a lot of color sanding I usually recommend leveling the surface by using Finishing Film (not Trizact) dry because when sanding dry you can SEE what you're doing. After sanding dry you can remove the heavier Finishing Film scratch using wet Trizact then polish to bring back the gloss. After you sand and polish a couple of cars you may want to try starting wet because you cut faster but you need to squeegee off the water to check your progress.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/3m5517.jpg (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3m5518c&Category_Code=PSH)

88GT
05-04-2010, 08:42 AM
around here, it means no orange peel, no wave, no scratch, no swirl, so if you're using the term "show car finish" and it still has any of those things, then ....

Many of my customers take their cars to shows. I have seen better work than mine at shows. But mostly I see work that is inferior. What matters is, the customers are happy. Happy as hell with my work. Thats why they come as far as they do to get here. Im sure where you are from, around there, cars that have urethane wave are ejected from the shows.

88GT , What spray gun do you use to apply clear ? Approx. PSI ?
Do you use SPI Universal clear ?
Plus gun, 33-35, no PSI

*Side note. Been doing it this way for quite some time. I tried change. I tried SF. I tried to save a buck. It didnt work for me so I went back to 3M polishes.

Robert
05-04-2010, 09:18 AM
Many of my customers take their cars to shows. I have seen better work than mine at shows. But mostly I see work that is inferior. What matters is, the customers are happy. Happy as hell with my work. Thats why they come as far as they do to get here. Im sure where you are from, around there, cars that have urethane wave are ejected from the shows.

The point was that different terms mean different things sometimes even when said by the same person. Obviously, you can't take all the distortion out of paint with 1500, the waves that remain are what's left over after the 1500 mimics the orange peel but that's still a great finish, much better than factory and for the most part much better than any paint really needs to be.

Do you ever start your colorsanding with 800?

Henry
05-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Plus gun, 33-35, no PSI

Where is your fluid knob set and how fast are you dumping material?
The more I have my fluid knob open on that gun I dump a cup in a hurry. I'm about 3 1/2 turns out with decent results. Thanks. Henry

88GT
05-04-2010, 12:53 PM
The point was that different terms mean different things sometimes even when said by the same person. Obviously, you can't take all the distortion out of paint with 1500, the waves that remain are what's left over after the 1500 mimics the orange peel but that's still a great finish, much better than factory and for the most part much better than any paint really needs to be.

Do you ever start your colorsanding with 800?
Sometimes I'll block a bad run starting with 600, so yes. Sometimes I do. If I did a whole car that way, would it look noticably better than my current method? Not to most people, perhaps even me. I might, however, offer that as an "extra". However, anyone that has seen my work will surely NOT opt for the added cost. And almost all of my customers have either seen my work, or heard about it from someone else. So I really dont think Im gonna get many hits on that added cost. But thats good. I see an additional 1-2 hours per pannel blocking clear with 800. Add a coat of clear to that and you dont get much bang for your buck in my opinion.

Plus gun, 33-35, no PSI

Where is your fluid knob set and how fast are you dumping material?
The more I have my fluid knob open on that gun I dump a cup in a hurry. I'm about 3 1/2 turns out with decent results. Thanks. Henry
33-35 IS the PSI. I max out the fan and fluid most of the time.
If you close the fluid knob, you have to slow down.
How fast am I moving? I dont know. Slow enough for good flow, fast enough to avoid runs.
1 cup will almost do a coat on a mid sized complete

LS6
05-05-2010, 07:26 PM
The only trizact I know of is used on a machine with a tiny bit of water. Is there a trizact that is used on a "block"?

GT,
There is no trizact made for use with a block. However, you can use it by hand for certain applications. Robert sometimes will use it by hand ( wet ) when he is detailing a particularly rough, heavily weathered car, rather than use a heavy grit compound to carve off the initial grit and dead paint.
After that he will proceed as usual in bringing back the finish to an acceptable level. He says it works for him and his work speaks for itself.
LS6 :)

Len
05-05-2010, 10:55 PM
GT,
There is no trizact made for use with a block. However, you can use it by hand for certain applications. Robert sometimes will use it by hand ( wet ) when he is detailing a particularly rough, heavily weathered car, rather than use a heavy grit compound to carve off the initial grit and dead paint.
After that he will proceed as usual in bringing back the finish to an acceptable level. He says it works for him and his work speaks for itself.
LS6 :)

I use 3" Trizact Disks wrapped around Run Blockers to remove light scratches and defects in the paint then polish the paint back to a gloss.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/3m2077.jpg
3" Trizact Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M2077&Category_Code=M3)

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rb3.jpg
Run Blocker Link (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RB3&Category_Code=PSH)

88GT
05-06-2010, 09:10 AM
I do the same thing, but I use 2000 wet/dry.

LS6
05-06-2010, 06:04 PM
I do the same thing, but I use 2000 wet/dry.

It's probably fear of the ISOs. I know an airbrush artist who works the same way. He told me that there is no way in this lifetime that he will shoot his own clear because of the ISOs.
I also think that with Mike Lavallee, he probably gets so much airbrush work that he can afford to leave the clear coat part to someone else. His " real fire " airbrushing is in demand.

I believe Craig Frazer works the same way. He has a partner ( Dion ) who shoots the clear coat after Craig does the graphics.
LS6

LS6
05-07-2010, 10:26 PM
It's probably fear of the ISOs. I know an airbrush artist who works the same way. He told me that there is no way in this lifetime that he will shoot his own clear because of the ISOs.
I also think that with Mike Lavallee, he probably gets so much airbrush work that he can afford to leave the clear coat part to someone else. His " real fire " airbrushing is in demand.

I believe Craig Frazer works the same way. He has a partner ( Dion ) who shoots the clear coat after Craig does the graphics.
LS6

I posted this on the wrong thread. It should have been on the Custom work thread, and I don't drink. Sorry about that, GT. No wonder I couldn't find my post on that thread.
LS6:[

gtome
05-21-2010, 07:44 AM
There is some good info here. I have always been curious as how to get rid of the left over waves? I always wetsand (or dry) all of the peel out, but after polishing you can look down the panel in just the right light and see that wave you guys are talking about. How can you get rid of that? Or can you? I have tried using 600 wet to start, and started with 1500 too, doesnt seem to make much difference in the quality of the finished product..... just different ways of getting there. I guess I always figured it was in the paint and couldnt be repaired. I build "show cars" and never had any complaints, but if I could make em better I surely would.

88GT
05-21-2010, 10:41 AM
There is some good info here. I have always been curious as how to get rid of the left over waves? I always wetsand (or dry) all of the peel out, but after polishing you can look down the panel in just the right light and see that wave you guys are talking about. How can you get rid of that? Or can you? I have tried using 600 wet to start, and started with 1500 too, doesnt seem to make much difference in the quality of the finished product..... just different ways of getting there. I guess I always figured it was in the paint and couldnt be repaired. I build "show cars" and never had any complaints, but if I could make em better I surely would.

blocking would be the only way to get that little bit of difference. I cant really tell the difference from where I might block a run or some other spot, and the rest of the finish, so I opt NOT to spend the extra 20 or so hours on a car to make that little possible bit of difference. If I wasnt getting the compliments I do, I might search for some improvements

gtome
05-21-2010, 04:52 PM
I was just curious, because a lot of times I block the whole car out wet, never touch it with a DA and I still seem to get the waves. I agree, it still looks really good. I just thought if there was a way to do it, and make it wave free, I would be more than willing to spend the extra 20 hours or so on it.

Would it help to wetsand with a longer block to get the flattest look possible?

Had a great day wetsanding and buffing today. Everything was going really well, and coming out nice (cep still getting the little waves;)), then the dude I work for came out to have a look. I was compounding the last piece (the fender) and he bumped into my arm and shoved the polisher down over the crown just above where the trim goes. Of coarse, it was a sharp edge, only a few days old, and burned right through the clear. Now I have to decide if I want to try to touch it up, or just scuff it and blend it in. I have never had much luck blending clear, so chances are I will be re-clearing the whole fender.... then wetsanding, and polishing.... again:[

Polish Painter
05-22-2010, 08:09 AM
88GT, Do you start with 1500 Finishing Film (dry) on a da or the Trizact 1500 ( wet ) ?

Then use 3000 trizact ?

88GT
05-23-2010, 02:47 PM
88GT, Do you start with 1500 Finishing Film (dry) on a da or the Trizact 1500 ( wet ) ?

Then use 3000 trizact ?

I dont use a DA, but for the most part I use 1500 FF and 3000 trizact. Other methods as needed.

Robert
05-23-2010, 03:35 PM
I was just curious, because a lot of times I block the whole car out wet, never touch it with a DA and I still seem to get the waves. I agree, it still looks really good. I just thought if there was a way to do it, and make it wave free, I would be more than willing to spend the extra 20 hours or so on it.

Would it help to wetsand with a longer block to get the flattest look possible?

Had a great day wetsanding and buffing today. Everything was going really well, and coming out nice (cep still getting the little waves;)), then the dude I work for came out to have a look. I was compounding the last piece (the fender) and he bumped into my arm and shoved the polisher down over the crown just above where the trim goes. Of coarse, it was a sharp edge, only a few days old, and burned right through the clear. Now I have to decide if I want to try to touch it up, or just scuff it and blend it in. I have never had much luck blending clear, so chances are I will be re-clearing the whole fender.... then wetsanding, and polishing.... again:[

It's been my experience 800 grit wet is the place to start. After the first cut, in my method at least, everything else is about refining the initial scratch, no matter where, with what grit I start.

The thing with a high speed is, run parallel to the apex of the curve and bring the pressure/rpms down as the contact patch gets smaller, run off the edges. Outside those variables there's not much to it. (Running parallel to the apex of the curve means this: If you had a six inch pipe several feet long - the apex of the curve would run lengthwise on both the inside and outside of the pipe.)

I'm not saying you didn't know that, but since you brought up a burn so I thought I'd mention it.

gtome
05-23-2010, 08:38 PM
It's been my experience 800 grit wet is the place to start. After the first cut, in my method at least, everything else is about refining the initial scratch, no matter where, with what grit I start.

The thing with a high speed is, run parallel to the apex of the curve and bring the pressure/rpms down as the contact patch gets smaller, run off the edges. Outside those variables there's not much to it. (Running parallel to the apex of the curve means this: If you had a six inch pipe several feet long - the apex of the curve would run lengthwise on both the inside and outside of the pipe.)

I'm not saying you didn't know that, but since you brought up a burn so I thought I'd mention it.

This time I started with 1000 wet because it clogged the dry da way too fast and gave me pigtails. From there I used 1200 wet on the DA, 1500 wet on the DA, and then 3000 trizact wet on the DA. Still getting the dreaded wave though. I will put a picture up, but it doesnt really show what I am talking about. I can see it when there in person, but cant really tell in the pic.

Yea I was working above the apex on the fender, and I never have any trouble, but when he bumped into me it shoved my arm down and into the peak (and on a corner). I dont usually tape the edges, because i usually wetsand up to them, and need to get very close when buffing. Guess if I am going to have someone around, I better start tapeing them.

Len
05-23-2010, 09:51 PM
If I was having wave problems I'd be using 800 or 1000 grit on a block to start then switch to my DA for 1200 and/or 1500 Trizact then to 3000 grit Trizact then polish. I'd probably use a slightly flexible block to sand with the 800 wet then switch to the DA for the Trizact.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/drbaf4400end.jpg
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DRBAF4400&Category_Code=TFSL)

When you block sand it would be good to use a squeegee to clean the surface after every couple of passes so that you can see your progress. After you do a panel or two you'll get more of a feel for the amount you're taking off and you won't need the squeegee as much.


http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/3m5517.jpg
LINK (http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3m5518c&Category_Code=PSH)


One more thing.... I don't get waves but I'm guessing that it could be from the overlap of the coats of paint as they are being sprayed. If you have this problem you may be able to avoid a lot of extra work by "cross coating" the paint job.... Spray the first coat horizontally and the next coat vertically. Another cause could be an uneven spray pattern that is spraying the paint unevenly along the gun's path. If you think this could be the problem you might want to get a better spray gun or buy new parts for your existing gun.

gtome
05-23-2010, 10:02 PM
Len: That is exactly how I did it. I didnt use a long block though just the 5" (or whatever it is) semi flexable Dura-block hand block. I also used a squeegy as well.

I guess maybe waves isnt the best term for what im getting, I dont "think" that the paint process is what is causing this. I could be totally wrong though?? I wish I could get it to show from a pic, but you just cant see it. I took 75 different pics trying to get it, but you just cant see it in them. I am useing a Sata 3000, and I dont think I can get much better than that.

I guess the best way to describe it is, if you look down the panel in just the right light, looking straight down it from very close to the panel (with your eye damn near touching the panel), you can see what looks to be little ripples. I know it just isnt me because i see almost every car at the car shows has the very same thing? Oh well, keep the sugesstions coming, i would love to be able to look down the panel and have it look perfect!!

gtome
05-23-2010, 10:07 PM
Here is another pic, I cant see it in them, but maybe someone else can?