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Choppers_rule
04-20-2010, 11:36 AM
Hi,
I'm thinking to give "Sure Finish" a shot to detail my cars.
Do I need to change from rotary buffer to DA/ orbital buffer when I change the compound pad to the polishing pad??

I'm thinking to use Zaino paint sealant after I polish it with Sure Finish, will these products work together?

Thank you.

88GT
04-20-2010, 12:13 PM
My experience with SF (that seemed to be debunked as a "bad batch") would be that, it barely worked with a rotary tool. It would do absolutely nothing with a RO machine. But the 2 products should work together just fine

Choppers_rule
04-20-2010, 12:54 PM
My experience with SF (that seemed to be debunked as a "bad batch") would be that, it barely worked with a rotary tool. It would do absolutely nothing with a RO machine. But the 2 products should work together just fine

Thank you for the reply, I guess I'll just use Zaino polish & sealant then....

88GT
04-20-2010, 02:46 PM
dont write it off so quick. Len (as well as many others) think highly of SF. Im not sure if zaino is a compound or not. All I know is zaino is very expensive and in my humble opinion, over rated. I have my "finishing touches" ways. It dont include SF or zaino. Im a 3M kinda guy

Robert
04-20-2010, 07:43 PM
http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.wytwolf/InterestingWork#

Len
04-20-2010, 10:57 PM
http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.wytwolf/InterestingWork#

Man, that hurts my back just looking at it. :)


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_om5pqQGHg3E/SdxHuFFF5bI/AAAAAAAAAcg/tlHosx4Rl4o/s640/Colorsanding%20Ferrari%20011.jpg

Henry
04-21-2010, 10:35 AM
My experience with SF (that seemed to be debunked as a "bad batch") would be that, it barely worked with a rotary tool. It would do absolutely nothing with a RO machine. But the 2 products should work together just fine

How many times must you bring up something 'you say' happened to you YEARS AGO. You seem to wait for posts about Sure Finish just so you can steer new people against it. How come you seem to be the only one?

When Sure Finish came out, I put it through MANY tests just to make it NOT work. On my first test it did NOT work but later I found it was my fault by using a pad that had contaminants of another product.

Robert created this stuff because he is a pro detailer who gets vehicles right after paint in many cases and prepares them for the most prestigious car shows in the world. See his link below and watch him work WITH SURE FINISH and please notice the CALIBER vehicles he is working on:

http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.wytwolf/InterestingWork#

No one cares about your claims because too many success stories of Sure Finish wash away anything you have to say about the product. You are entitled to speak but keep it factual and current. If you don't like a product that's fine but you act like a bull in a china shop and take matters way out of context for people looking to try something good.

The person who asked the question cannot use ZAINO for the purpose of why he was thinking of using Sure Finish.

And please, don't come back with some childish put down against me because I said what I said above.

Sometimes I think you have your Sure Finish automated to respond to any thread where someone asks about Sure Finish - sort of like a speed dial reply on your part.

Finally, in the world of detailing, buffing or colorsanding, I don't think you are worthy to carry Robert's cord around the cars he works on.

I do wish you a good day, however. Henry

Henry
04-21-2010, 10:47 AM
Hi,
I'm thinking to give "Sure Finish" a shot to detail my cars.
Do I need to change from rotary buffer to DA/ orbital buffer when I change the compound pad to the polishing pad??

I'm thinking to use Zaino paint sealant after I polish it with Sure Finish, will these products work together?

Thank you.

For newly painted things that you need to colorsand and buff PLEASE try the Sure Finish.

If you are doing cars that have been subjected to collective grime and out of condition then you should start your job by using a good quality CLAY BAR to remove all the crap in the paint and bring out the true color with contaminants. If you were to use Zaino products, one of the first things they will tell you is to Clay Bar FIRST.

I have used Sure Finish over non washed surfaces to see what kind of paint I have on the car that needs some painting. I do this on cars that have been neglected so I can bring out the true color and gloss that lies on the panel next to the panel I wan to blend.

Tell us what you want to accomplish on either new paint, aged paint but sound or dead paint so more of us can help you. Regards. Henry

Choppers_rule
04-21-2010, 11:27 AM
I'm detailing a 1995 BMW with neglected original paint job but clear coat still in good shape.
Yep....I'm going to use a clay bar before I begin polishing and I'm not going to wet sand the clear.
Any advice would be appreciate it.

Len
04-21-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm detailing a 1995 BMW with neglected original paint job but clear coat still in good shape.
Yep....I'm going to use a clay bar before I begin polishing and I'm not going to wet sand the clear.
Any advice would be appreciate it.

If there are no surface imperfections other than weathered paint I would probably sand with 2000 or 2500 grit prior to polishing.

88GT
04-21-2010, 12:25 PM
How many times must you bring up something 'you say' happened to you YEARS AGO. You seem to wait for posts about Sure Finish just so you can steer new people against it. How come you seem to be the only one?



You are entitled to speak but keep it factual and current. If you don't like a product that's fine but you act like a bull in a china shop and take matters way out of context for people looking to try something good.

Henry
I did keep it factual and current. It wasnt many years ago. I also said it was a debunked claim. I further told the guy to let others chime in as this was just my own personal experience, so, that being said, STFU and take a back seat thank you. ;)
For my own personal work, 2 products that have failed me that I will never use again, but that is just me. 88GT. Transtar 4:1 clear, and SF polish. Im not telling anyone to not use these products. :D

Choppers_rule
04-21-2010, 02:26 PM
If there are no surface imperfections other than weathered paint I would probably sand with 2000 or 2500 grit prior to polishing.

I was thinking about that but don't know how thick the clear coat is.

Len
04-21-2010, 03:26 PM
I was thinking about that but don't know how thick the clear coat is.

If you don't sand then just polish and you should see fairly quickly if just polishing will give you the result you want.

Robert
04-21-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm detailing a 1995 BMW with neglected original paint job but clear coat still in good shape.
Yep....I'm going to use a clay bar before I begin polishing and I'm not going to wet sand the clear.
Any advice would be appreciate it.

First, wash and clay, and dry the car. Clay bars, sometimes called surface preparation bars, break contamination off the paint and make polishing more consistent and easier.

Second, buff the car to remove the scratches using Sure Finish and an electrified sheepskin or foamed wool pad. These pads are flat, not twisted wool, and will get closer to the edges and into tighter places more easily than a curved edge pad will. The other advantage they have is that they leave almost no swirl.

Third, after cutting out the scratches I'd rub out the swirls with Sure Finish applied to an orange foam pad on a dual action machine such as the Makita BO6040. Then, once the paint looks waxed, I'd wax it. Then take the tape off the moldings.

If you want to know more about all kinds of things related to detailing buy my very informative and compelling video. ;)

Len
04-21-2010, 08:34 PM
Third, after cutting out the scratches I'd rub out the swirls with Sure Finish applied to an orange foam pad on a dual action machine such as the Makita BO6040. Then, once the paint looks waxed, I'd wax it. Then take the tape off the moldings.


Robert
Have you done any experimenting with the new AirVantage yet? I'm being told that the 3/8" throw as aggressive as the BO6040 but I haven't tried it. I just got one and I'll report on my findings when I get a chance to use it.

Henry
04-22-2010, 09:46 AM
I was thinking about that but don't know how thick the clear coat is.

Anyway, I would not sand at this point. The clay bar should get you down to where you want to be.
CAUTION:Not sure of your buffing experience or the type machine you plan to use and the caution is you may burn the surface. I found a way to correct minor burns when I buffed as a kid using Turtle Wax white polishing compound. As soon as you see a burn (usually heavy compound that got too hot) just dab some on the spot and rub with your thumb and it will come off.

Below is a link from the CLASSROOM section of this site which is accessible from the home page. This is a link of Robert sanding OEM paint. This is NOT to suggest you sand your paint but to show you the OTHER techniques used. One important step is for you to SEASON the PAD. This means to spur the pad clean, even a new one and wet it slightly, etc. Have a look:

http://autobodystore.com/rsw.shtml

Some very interesting stuff about buffing.
You need to keep us informed on this project. Take your time. Henry

88GT
04-22-2010, 10:31 AM
when I hear the term "burn", it means to me, that, the polishing process went through the paint. Normally it happens on body lines and corners of pannels etc. Not, that there is just some compound that turned hard and is sitting on top of the paint. Normally, more of the same product used by hand will take care of that issue

Len
04-22-2010, 10:37 AM
when I hear the term "burn", it means to me, that, the polishing process went through the paint. Normally it happens on body lines and corners of pannels etc. Not, that there is just some compound that turned hard and is sitting on top of the paint. Normally, more of the same product used by hand will take care of that issue

A "burn through" is a little different to me. I see it as the buffer heating the paint so much that it causes it to soften and move. Normally the action will cause the paint to pile up and need to be block sanded using fine wet paper on a block to level it again and then you could sand or buff through this new problem.

Choppers_rule
04-22-2010, 10:44 AM
Is using DA buffer really necessary for the final polish?
Can you just use rotary buffer for the whole process? because that's all I have & the Makita DA buffer ain't cheap.

Henry
04-22-2010, 11:07 AM
Is using DA buffer really necessary for the final polish?
Can you just use rotary buffer for the whole process? because that's all I have & the Makita DA buffer ain't cheap.

You only need a buffer. No DA for what you want to do.
What kind of buffer do you plan to use; is it variable speed, what size pad, what type pad do you intend to use?

Yes, the Makita buffer is expensive and that is because of how it is engineered to work. You can use a very low RPM and stand on the machine on not bog it down. You would use a low RPM for compound with a wool pad and faster RPM for polishing with a foam pad.
For what you want to do I would say a medium RPM with the right pad (start with a wool), keep it wet and keep it moving.
NOTE: only concentrate on less than a 2 square foot area at a time. Don't apply product to the whole surface or panel. Actually, for you to get an idea of what you will accomplish ONLY buff an area of a square foot to see your results then adjust from there.

What kind of buffer are you using?
What type pads?
Velcro attached or?
What product?
Did you learn what it means to season the pad?

You can bring your paint back and you can also cause problems. We do not want problems and are here to help you. Henry

Choppers_rule
04-23-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm borrowing my buddy's big Makita rotary buffer with multiple speeds for now, I believe it's a 7".
I haven't bought the pads yet but you guys recommended:
Wool pad - for compound/remove scratches at low speed
Orange pad - to remove swirl at medium speed

I heard Lake Country pads are good, is it true??

btw, I've read the link on how to season your pad with polish & dampening it with a bit of water.

What type of paint sealant do you recommend on top of Sure Finish?