clear coat help

[Ronrizz]

hello all, I'm new here, and would appreciate any help I can get.
I just finished my first paint job a few months ago, It is a urethane base (metallic) and clear.
Finish came out better than I ever imagined after buffing. The first nice day of spring I take the car to the car wash, and the clear starts blowing right off the car, like it was a decal. WTF??
Anyway, I get another gallon of clear, and figure I'm in for a long weekend of sanding, so i roll out the pressure washer, and to my surprise, i sprayed every square inch of clear right off the car with it. The basecoat looks perfect yet.
My question is this..Can i spray the clear right over the existing paint, or do I need to recoat?
In addition, what are the odds that it is the paint thats bad, and not the clear, and lastly, I waited probably an hour after final basecoat to spray on clear, how important is it to follow a timeline in regards to base/clear??
I would really appreciate any input.
Ron

[Brian Felts]

Yes with base clear is all about a time line. Depending on the base you used you have a set time you have to clear to sit the chemical bond. Most are within 24 hours. After you pass the time you MUST scratch the old base wth a pad or sand paper and re base. Yes you must re base


PLEASE dont take your new paing through a car wash!!! :0


Brian Felts

[Phil V]

The car wash is not to blame for all the clear blowing right off. Before you go any further you need to find out why that clearcoat delaminated. Exactly what brand and type of paints did you use and what was your paint procedure, application timelines etc.

[Ronrizz]

Thanks for the input, guys.
I painted the car in Novenber, car wash event wasn't until March (first time out of garage)
I used Trinity 1945 copper metallic urethane base, and 5Star classic extreme clear(also a urethane) Mixed both to manufacturers recommendations.
5 coats of base, 15 to 20 minutes between
Clear went on after an hour or so. I waited for the base to dry to the touch so I could paint 2 very small pinstripes down the sides, then Immediately sprayed the clear.
Any other thoughts????
Thanks
Ron

[another2centsworth]

Did you call Trinity or 5-Star? I would call just to ask about compatibility.:privateeye:

[Ronrizz]

Actually, they came in a kit...
I did however call trinity, they said that it was prolly a bad batch of clear, and sent me a new gallon of clear and activator fed-ex overnight.
I would certainly hate to put the time and effort into shooting the clear on, sand, cut, buff, ect, and find out the problem was in the base, or my timeline, ect.
Ron

[Len]

Actually, they came in a kit...
I did however call trinity, they said that it was prolly a bad batch of clear, and sent me a new gallon of clear and activator fed-ex overnight.
I would certainly hate to put the time and effort into shooting the clear on, sand, cut, buff, ect, and find out the problem was in the base, or my timeline, ect.
Ron

If I had applied the clear within the recoat window and this happened on a vehicle that we did in our shop I would never use those same products again. I'd go out and purchase brand name paint like BASF, DuPont, PPG or some other well know brand and do the job over again by removing the clear, scuffing the base and reapplying new base and clear.

[gsracer]

Seriously what len said, that would totally freak me out.

[buckeyeresto]

I have a question in that did you happen to put fisheye eliminator in the basecoat? Basecoat with fisheye eliminator and then clear don't get along, and causes this problem

[dchristian]

Interesting! my son bought a 06 Saubaru a couple months ago from Carmax that that had a a been in an accident from a previous owner. Well someone opened a door on the front drivers fender over the wheel well and put a nasty deep crease in the fender. He brought it home for me to fix. I repaired it and sprayed it with Dupont base and clear. It came out beautiful. to my shock when I pulled the green masking tape off the ajoining drivers side door it pulled chunks of clear from the existing base coat. I was not a happy camper. I do not know who painted the car before but they must have used some cheep junk paint. Looks like his next trip home I will be redoing the door. I suspect if I mask off the rear door, I think the tape will pull the clear off the rear door too. It looks like the entire car was painted whih this crap. I suspect thet the clear is going to start coming off in chunks before long.

[Len]

I think the tape will pull the clear off the rear door too. It looks like the entire car was painted whih this crap. I suspect thet the clear is going to start coming off in chunks before long.

Next time run the masking tape across your pant leg to remove some of the stickiness before applying it to the car.

[Ronrizz]

If I had applied the clear within the recoat window and this happened on a vehicle that we did in our shop I would never use those same products again. I'd go out and purchase brand name paint like BASF, DuPont, PPG or some other well know brand and do the job over again by removing the clear, scuffing the base and reapplying new base and clear.
That seems a little harsh, Len.... I'm sure even the Big Dogs (Dupont, BASF, ect.) get a product or two past the quality control guys!!!
I think what I willl do with it is this.... I have a test panel from a door I replaced on the car. I think I will treat it the same manner as I will do the car. Remove the clear, scuff the base, and recoat, and shoot the new clear. after a month I will check the adhesion. If all is well, I'll do the car over. If not, I'll start from scratch with a different brand.
Thanks to you all for the advice, seriously, much appreciated.
Ron

[fixdent]

Well, you certainly were within the time limits....this should not have happened.

I only every had this happen once to me....using Dupont Chromabase. I accidently put base reducer into the clear....it all peeled later.

--
Gordon

[Steve g]

That seems a little harsh, Len.... I'm sure even the Big Dogs (Dupont, BASF, ect.) get a product or two past the quality control guys!!!
I think what I willl do with it is this.... I have a test panel from a door I replaced on the car. I think I will treat it the same manner as I will do the car. Remove the clear, scuff the base, and recoat, and shoot the new clear. after a month I will check the adhesion. If all is well, I'll do the car over. If not, I'll start from scratch with a different brand.
Thanks to you all for the advice, seriously, much appreciated.
Ron

It's certainly not what I would do. The chance that the problem is in the base is at least equal to the likelihood of it being in the clear. While I don't have any hard evidence, I personally would be much more suspect of the base as the problem. With all I've read about adhesion over base when the base has been sanded and not reshot with base (or even sanded and reshot with base for that matter), cautions from the manufacturers about procedure with base before clear, parafins in the bases etc, it would seem to me there is much more to go wrong with the base than the clear. It may have remained attached to the surface below it because it was working on an abraded surface and the base to clear link is chemical only.

I would remove the base and start again with materials of known quality. Scuffing the questionable base may improve it's adhesion over what it was, but it may still be well short of optimum or even minimum. May just take longer before it delams again.

Yes, the big dogs will have their issues, but I'm pretty confident that the probabilities are higher in the smaller manufacturers. They (the big guys) have a lot more to protect (volume they produce and reputation) and have the budget to protect it. Most of the ones we hear about on the board are not from the major players.



Steve g

[Ronrizz]

I agree with that statement.
That takes me back to my original post, and question about the odds of the base being bad. until your post, all replies were in regard to clear coat only.
hmmmm.....
I'm seeing sanding to primer in my future..... not that much extra work with 2 friends that will work for beer!! lol

[Steve g]

I agree with that statement.
That takes me back to my original post, and question about the odds of the base being bad. until your post, all replies were in regard to clear coat only.
hmmmm.....
I'm seeing sanding to primer in my future..... not that much extra work with 2 friends that will work for beer!! lol
If you plan on taking the base off with a da you will make waves in your surface (especially if you're paying your helpers as you go). Unless this is a project where that doesn't matter (I can't imagine what that might be tho), that will mean having to apply a high build primer and blocking/longboarding. If it were me I would, instead, remove the base with some 180 on my boards/blocks. This will keep or improve the surface shape and save you the primer. Follow it with guide coat and 400 and you're good to go. Probably less work in total.

Steve g