Is maaco paint defected?

[showcar]

I hear it's either expired or wattered down. Anyone hear about this? I refer people who don't wanna spend money to a particular one for strict mask and shoots but I don't wanna refer anyone else if this is the case with their paints. I was always under the impression that it was their prepping that made it a bad place. Any comments would be appreciated.

[jimmo4life]

I don't think that's accurate. Maybe someone got confused with them advertising being waterborne. Granted they haven't exactly built a name for themselves on quality, but each one is owned and operated independently so quality varies. As for expired and watered down products I would highly doubt it.

[showcar]

Thanks!

yeah, I see the quality differences from shop to shop. The one I refer people to is a good one. They use Omni Au. They are just mask and shoots so if there's no mouldings or anything it doesn't leave much for them to mess up on:), and we know they haven't found a short cut to laying it down yet. They are forced to do that part right. hahahaha

I just figured they are a franchise so they get their paint for really cheap, but not neccesarily old paint.

[jimmo4life]

They no doubt get a good discount on their paint, but if they used unreliable products it would just cost them more money in problems.

[showcar]

I'm thinking that person told me this cause he wants me to refer him to customers. :D

Sounded pretty convincing too.

[jimmy3fan]

I used to be a painter at a Maaco a few years ago. When I started there, we sprayed Dupont Nason and Chroma base. After about a year they switched to PPG Omni and Delton. I painted my truck with Omni B/C C/C two years ago and have not had any problem yet.


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x8/jimmy3fan/truck009.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x8/jimmy3fan/truck019.jpg

[showcar]

I used to be a painter at a Maaco a few years ago. When I started there, we sprayed Dupont Nason and Chroma base. After about a year they switched to PPG Omni and Delton. I painted my truck with Omni B/C C/C two years ago and have not had any problem yet.


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x8/jimmy3fan/truck009.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x8/jimmy3fan/truck019.jpg
nice! That's good to know, and just to clarify, I think guys that start off painting at maaco end up being very good painters. Repitition.

[All Dry]

I hear it's either expired or wattered down. Anyone hear about this? I refer people who don't wanna spend money to a particular one for strict mask and shoots but I don't wanna refer anyone else if this is the case with their paints. I was always under the impression that it was their prepping that made it a bad place. Any comments would be appreciated.Im not sure,Where would it have defected to? Russia or something?:D Mike

[Len]

nice! That's good to know, and just to clarify, I think guys that start off painting at maaco end up being very good painters. Repitition.

I don't know about that. :confused:

Doing a job fast and doing a job well are two very different approaches. While many of the steps are the same there's a big difference in what is needed to accomplish either of these two outcomes.

I've had over a hundred people working in my shops over the years and there have been many good and many not-so-good bodymen and painters. Most of the ones that managed to stay with me for a long time where not the production types but the people that paid attention to details and didn't rush the work. The man that now works with me has never done body or paint work, he worked in a supermarket for 34 years before he retired and came to my shop. He learned by paying close attention to detail and now, after 4 years, produces some of the best I've ever seen. It's been my experience that someone who is accustom to turning out work using a minimum amount of time may not necessarily produce a high quality result.

[showcar]

Im not sure,Where would it have defected to? Russia or something?:D Mike
hbahahahaha:rottentom

[showcar]

I don't know about that. :confused:

Doing a job fast and doing a job well are two very different approaches. While many of the steps are the same there's a big difference in what is needed to accomplish either of these two outcomes.

I've had over a hundred people working in my shops over the years and there have been many good and many not-so-good bodymen and painters. Most of the ones that managed to stay with me for a long time where not the production types but the people that paid attention to details and didn't rush the work. The man that now works with me has never done body or paint work, he worked in a supermarket for 34 years before he retired and came to my shop. He learned by paying close attention to detail and now, after 4 years, produces some of the best I've ever seen. It's been my experience that someone who is accustom to turning out work using a minimum amount of time may not necessarily produce a high quality result.

different animals for production to resto. I'm refering to things like being able to do blends in tight quarters and color matching. I guess I'm thinking that cause the best painter I've ever worked with came from a maaco some 12 years prior and this guy can lay it down like it's already been sanded and polished. This guy will do a huge rv (2 stage) and do custom stuff to em too and when you see it finished your jaw drops. I think he makes over $150k. He's always showing off his work to me at the car shows I see him at. The guy is a true pro.

[jimmo4life]

I can see what you mean about them becoming good sprayers anyhow, they seem to move a lot of vehicles and a lot of them from what I understand are operated assembly line style...Painter doesn't stop. Being a good sprayer & painter are two different things though

I do know a former maaco manager & another bodyman who told me many horror storys about the way they fixed cars. Panel matched like crazy and wouldn't fix structural damage if they could get away with it. The manager is clueless, The bodyman has moved on to a better shop and is now a very good by the books tech. He did tell me that the manager regularly instructed him to say take a vehicle that got creamed in the back,,,,throw a bumper on it and adjust the door gaps & out the door with bent rails.... That sort of thing.....Luckly, that particular Maaco went out of business.

[showcar]

Yeah, I hear what you are saying and with the way you guys discuss detailed stuff it's just a sign that there is a MAJOR difference.

yeah, I think it depends on management. The two I work with do the frame repairs. What I saw what was wrong was they don't use adhesion promoter for plastic and they rattle can small baremetal spots, but even good production shops do that. Well, some of them. they use low grits to for prepping but it's not really noticible.

One time the manager had to do a re do and he was pretty pissed about it. So he just mudded it and apparently layed it on to thick. A few weeks later it looked as if a coin was under the filler pushing itself out. It was funny to see his face when that came in for the third time. I never seen hack work like that

[rigidude]

They painted one of my pickups about 8 years ago. I think it was enamel. Not sure tho'. But it's held up sitting for the past 4 years in one spot suffering all the elements as I dont use it anymore , and still looks ok. I gotta note that I light sanded the entire body of original factory paint before I took it to them. For all I know, the paint would have been peeling off in sheets if I had'nt done that. But's that's not fair to say.

[Len]

They painted one of my pickups about 8 years ago. I think it was enamel. Not sure tho'. But it's held up sitting for the past 4 years in one spot suffering all the elements as I dont use it anymore , and still looks ok. I gotta note that I light sanded the entire body of original factory paint before I took it to them. For all I know, the paint would have been peeling off in sheets if I had'nt done that. But's that's not fair to say.

Like the quality produced by most body shops there is probably some quality differences between the different Maaco franchises. When we were doing a lot more production work we repainted several Maaco jobs that the customers weren't happy with. These repaints were all needed because the cars had lost their gloss after about 6 months.

[Phil V]

I don't know about that. :confused:

Doing a job fast and doing a job well are two very different approaches. While many of the steps are the same there's a big difference in what is needed to accomplish either of these two outcomes.

I've had over a hundred people working in my shops over the years and there have been many good and many not-so-good bodymen and painters. Most of the ones that managed to stay with me for a long time where not the production types but the people that paid attention to details and didn't rush the work. The man that now works with me has never done body or paint work, he worked in a supermarket for 34 years before he retired and came to my shop. He learned by paying close attention to detail and now, after 4 years, produces some of the best I've ever seen. It's been my experience that someone who is accustom to turning out work using a minimum amount of time may not necessarily produce a high quality result.


Len, its rare that I disagree with you but I do disagree with you on this one.
I worked as a painter at a Maaco a long time ago and I learned skills there that most definately made me a better painter. Lets keep in mind that a painter at a maaco applies paint, that all. Their job has nothing to do with paint prep like sanding and taping. When a car is painted there isn't much leeway whether its a production paint job or a paint job at a cadillac dealership. Paint is paint, it only goes on one way, by a person running a spray gun. Either the paint looks right when its done or it doesn't, nothing in between. I think the most valuable thing I learned as a painter at a Maaco what that I developed a rythm while spraying. It may sound stupid to some people but that rythm is almost like a dance where every movement flows. Some people refer to it as "getting into the zone", where you're totally focused and everything you've learned as a painter comes into play with every movement of the spray gun. It could be compared to a pool player running a table or a basketball player consistently making baskets, shot after shot.

When I was a painter at a Maaco were used Western Paints which back then was acrylic enamel with hardener (the same basic paint everyone else used in the dealerships etc.) If we ran low on a toner for mixing paint before the delivery truck came we would buy R&M mixing toners from the local paint store which were an exact match to the Western Paints toners. Point being that back then the paint Maaco used was the same as any paint all the other autobody/paint shops were using in the area.

One last thing. Close to that same time period I was a bodyman at the same Maaco in Ann Arbor, Michigan. We didn't get a lot of hard hits in that shop, most of the repair work was dings, dents and light hits. Most bodymen refer to that kind of work as "gravy work". Excellent for bodymen who are on commission because the work is easy to do with speed and quality combined. I made really good money when I worked there as a bodyman, comparable to between 60 to 80 thousand a year in todays money. There was no short cuts or shoddy work done. Back to the same thing, either its done right or it isn't and the work was done right. I learned to be fast and still do top notch work. Nothing wrong with that.

[Len]

Phil
You're absolutely right, when it comes to only spraying a Maaco painter gets a lot of practice and can probably apply paint as well or better than most average painters. However in most small to midsized shops and ALL the DIYers need to do more than just spray, they also need to prep which entails many more variables than merely spraying paint. It's this prep work that will usually make or break a job not the spraying and it's also the prep that takes time and that's where these low cost, high production shops usually fall short. It's that poor prep that can cause the job to look less than perfect and also cause it to age prematurely and this is the common complaint that you hear from Maaco customers.

If you put a spray gun in almost anyone's hand and have them spray a couple hundred cars they will probably get it together eventually however this is not the case when you throw in a thousand other variables that can be found in the prep work. I was commenting on the overall process rather than just paint spraying.

[All Dry]

One thing I always wondered.On the P.R. front most people expect cadillac results when they have a car painted the 5 or 6 hundred bucks they spend in their mind is a huge investment.but the reality is from a bodywork standpoint its chicken scratch.How do shops like Macco deal with customers when they see the inevitable imperfections in the finished product? Do you have them sign first that there will be imperfections does the customer understand going into it that there may be imperfections/What if they end up with a customer that keeps trying to get them to rework the product?It seems like you would have to prep the customer for what to expect ,just wondering how they handle that.Mike

[Len]

One thing I always wondered.On the P.R. front most people expect cadillac results when they have a car painted the 5 or 6 hundred bucks they spend in their mind is a huge investment.but the reality is from a bodywork standpoint its chicken scratch.How do shops like Macco deal with customers when they see the inevitable imperfections in the finished product? Do you have them sign first that there will be imperfections does the customer understand going into it that there may be imperfections/What if they end up with a customer that keeps trying to get them to rework the product?It seems like you would have to prep the customer for what to expect ,just wondering how they handle that.Mike
It's a well know fact that people that think that $500 is a big investment for car painting are not going to see the imperfections because they know very little about the work. When we paint a car, one of the things that we discuss with new customers is their expectations but if they expect to pay $500 it's obvious that they have almost no concept what they are buying.

[Jersey Mike]

One thing I always wondered.On the P.R. front most people expect cadillac results when they have a car painted the 5 or 6 hundred bucks they spend in their mind is a huge investment.but the reality is from a bodywork standpoint its chicken scratch.How do shops like Macco deal with customers when they see the inevitable imperfections in the finished product? Do you have them sign first that there will be imperfections does the customer understand going into it that there may be imperfections/What if they end up with a customer that keeps trying to get them to rework the product?It seems like you would have to prep the customer for what to expect ,just wondering how they handle that.Mike

Actually Maaco does have you sign a waiver saying that they are not a professional bodyshop and that imperfections should be expected. I had a few cars done at Maaco when I was a teenager and wasn't looking for a lasting paint job. Im not sure if only that particular shop had waivers or they all did.The two yr paint job lasted exactly 2 yrs.

[showcar]

Actually Maaco does have you sign a waiver saying that they are not a professional bodyshop and that imperfections should be expected. I had a few cars done at Maaco when I was a teenager and wasn't looking for a lasting paint job. Im not sure if only that particular shop had waivers or they all did.The two yr paint job lasted exactly 2 yrs.
the question would be did it peel or did it lose it's gloss?

[200horse]

i worked at a maaco for 3 weeks used sherwin williams paint not the cheap stuff. i thought they put out a great job for the money. I think Maaco is a great bang for your buck especially of you are on a budget.

[Len]

i worked at a maaco for 3 weeks used sherwin williams paint not the cheap stuff. i thought they put out a great job for the money. I think Maaco is a great bang for your buck especially of you are on a budget.

I absolutely agree but you can't get more than you pay for or Maaco wouldn't be there. If you pay $300 for a paint job to a shop that hires people to do the work, that pays the taxes and other overhead needed to keep their business going and purchases materials needed to do the job then you should expect to get what you pay for. However you shouldn't deceive youself by thinking you're going to get a thousand dollar paint job because you're not, you're going to get a $300 if you're lucky.