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View Full Version : Why does PPG Paint cost so much?



jclark311
04-01-2006, 01:37 PM
I have 2 cars to paint, a 97 Formula, and a 2000 Firebird. I am trying to find a reasonable alternative to buying PPG. I know PPG, is a top of the line brand, and i have used it in the past. But i bought a galler of DT reducer today at Norwood, and they charged me $38.60.

Dennis N. Schmidt
04-01-2006, 02:03 PM
Simple, because they can. Any business has a responsibility to its sharholders to maximize profit. Are their prices complete bullshit, absolutely. Are they gouging you, certainly. If you're still buying it that then becomes your problem.

PPG is king of the jungle and they act like it. Try Matrix.

barthmonster
04-01-2006, 02:59 PM
DuPont is cheaper and just as good I hear (Chroma Series), yeah I've heard Matrix is good plus their basecoat has no Iso's in them...

Phil V
04-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Jclark, I agree with Dennis. PPG charges so much - simply - because they can and some people are willing to pay their inflated prices. The key here is to pick and choose which products to use. Omni AU reducer works exactly the same as the DT reducer, it even smells exactly the same. Omni clear in my book works just as well as any high end PPG or Dupont clear only at less than half the cost of the high end clears. I use omni primers (excellent all around primers in epoxy and 2-K high build. Make sure the high build you get the Omni SV primer in the gold and white can). Don't skimp on your basecoat, in most cases it doesn't pay in the long run. Buy DBU base with the DRR reactive reducer (there are times to cut corners and there are times to not cut corners -- with basecoats it doesn't pay in the long run to cut corners). Clearcoat with the Omni clears, they are excellent clears even though they can be 1/3 the price of the high end clears.

jclark311
04-01-2006, 08:05 PM
Where do you get the Omni products, are they made by Dupont? What about Nason, i sprayed there stuff, on the front end of a friends truck, it came out OK, but i dont know how long it will hold up. I was also wongering about Kirker Automotive, hows there stuff, has anybody used it?

Chris L
04-01-2006, 08:34 PM
I use Matrix now.I use their basecoats along with their off brand reducers(rep told me most urethane reducers are made from the same company) at 15.50 per gallon.The ms 42 high solids clear lays down and buffs just as easy as PPG's high dollar stuff but at $100 less per gallon kit.I pay $156 for a gallon w/ hardner.I rarely have a color match problem at all.

jclark311
04-01-2006, 09:09 PM
Its been over 20 years since i did bodywork for a living, and we always used PPG back then. I think i remember Deltron, i guess OMNI came after that. I like the idea of using PPG products, just dont want to get ripped off. I have to paint both of these cars, one is Red, the other is Black. No metalic, just solid colors. Any recomendations as to what OMNI primer, basecoat, clear and hardeners i could use?

Phil V
04-01-2006, 10:15 PM
Omni products are made by PPG and are a lesser expensive line compared to PPG's high end products. Any paint store that sells PPG paint should also sell their Omni line. My personal and professional advice is to stay away from Omni basecoats. It would take too long right now to go through the whole list of why to stay away from Omni basecoats. Thats why in my earlier post I mentioned not skimping when it comes to buying a basecoat and to buy the DBU with the reactive reducer. 20 years ago most PPG paints sold were either Ditzler Duracryl lacquer or their acrylic enamel. I think their early urethane was called Delthane (we used to call it "Deathane", hehehe.).

BradNes1
04-02-2006, 01:11 AM
I agree with Phil, I just painted my blazer last summer with PPG omni products and I'm still very pleased with how it's holding up. I ended up using the omni basecoat and I didn't seem to have any coverage problems like some guys claim to have but then again I'm a novice and don't have much experience with anything else so take my advice for what its worth. I will say that I do like their epoxy primer (MP170) and their high build primer (MP282). I have used the MP170 on 3 cars now and I am very impressed with the adhesion of that product...especially for the price. My last paint job was the first time I used the MP282 but I really liked how that worked out too. Just some food for thought.

Steve g
04-02-2006, 10:44 AM
Couldn't agree more. I love that 170 with 282 over it for the money. I use it under Dupont Chromabase and Nason clear. Quite please with the results.
Steve g.

kenc
04-02-2006, 12:38 PM
I have 2 cars to paint, a 97 Formula, and a 2000 Firebird. I am trying to find a reasonable alternative to buying PPG. I know PPG, is a top of the line brand, and i have used it in the past. But i bought a galler of DT reducer today at Norwood, and they charged me $38.60.

Seems like $39 for a gallon of reducer is about par for the course. It's the cost of PPG's basecoat and SSU that gives me a cramp. Look inot Valspar - they seem to have good prices on basecoat and thus far I haven't found anyone dead against Valpsar's products for any reason.
Ken

brucebotti
04-02-2006, 01:47 PM
I'm upset with PPG and my dealer. I bought a gallon of DCU-2021 at $185! I only needed a pint of hardener since I already had a pint. Of course, they only have quarts and 1/2 pints. I bought two 1/2 pints at $31 each! Thank God I already had the DT reducer. Plus, this is supposed to be with a discount.

I tried to buy Omni epoxy. Of course, they no longer sell it. He recommended Transtar at $148 per gallon with activator. I'll just use Kirker at ~ $60/gallon.

This is likely my last PPG job. I'm interested in Matrix, but can you get that via the Internet? I find mail order/Internet companies to be much more helpful than the local jobbers (at least in my case).

I feel better now that I have vented!

Bruce

jclark311
04-02-2006, 09:36 PM
Are PPG OMNI clears a Urethane? Can there basecoats be sptayed over Deltron 2000 Basecoats?

Chris L
04-03-2006, 07:08 AM
Yes its urethane,but why would you want to spray omni base over another base?

ouboone
04-03-2006, 08:02 AM
Omni 260 clear with 167 and alittle dt reducer. Get a whole gallon kit for about $100 Then it actually makes 2 gallons. It cuts down easy and buffs out smooth and shiny. As for black vehicles, its alway omni MBC paint. Black is Black. Any colors I may worry about matching Omni MBP or PPG DBC, The DBC will always match. But on a red car count on payin about $80 for a pint.

Len
04-03-2006, 09:25 AM
Back in the old days black was black but for about the last 10 or so years there are several different blacks. Black can be a "blue" black, "brown" black or "black" black and in many cases you can't tell the difference until you apply the paint. If you look at the paint manufacturer's recommendations for the color code on the car you'll see that they may or may not recommend a mix of black with different tints in order to match that particular shade.

John Reeder
04-03-2006, 06:13 PM
Yes you can get Matrix via the internet. Go to google and type in "Matrix paint sale" and you will be lead to the vendor.

Chris L
04-05-2006, 07:47 AM
Ouboone.if you use 260 with 167 hardner ,you better be doing a fender,if not,you wont have time to get around half of a car with that set up.

mrken
04-05-2006, 09:32 AM
Well gentleman I've been on the manufactoring side of the refinish industry for 10 years now. I've worked for a few different companys. I've formulated clears, primers, activators, hardners, paints, and etc. To be honest most aftermarket paint companys are producing quality products. Just because something is cheaper than PPG, Dupont, BASF, or S&W doesn't mean its any less of a product than the major brands. They cost so much because they have alot higher overhead than the "generics." They sponser race teams and spend alot on marketing.

Now there are a few exceptions to the generics. If something is so cheap its unbelievable then its probably a product that is not up to par with what most shops require. However most of the "generics" use the same raw material suppliers as the majors do. If you are in need of a lower cost mixing bank system Matirx Systems is the company you need to talk to. I don't work for them anymore but I know their paint is alot better than Valspar's or S&W in my opinion. Good primer and clear companies are Matrix, Transtar, Southern Polyurethane, Starlite Coatings, and Rapid Products down in south Florida. All of these companies offer a good selection of products. If you're nervous about spending $80 for a kit of clear instead of $200 then you really are missing the boat. It is true though if you run an efficent shop you can make money on your paint no matter who you use but I highly recommend trying the generics. Alot of shops will use it on their used car business if they are already committed to a "Major Label." Hope you find this helpful, if anyone has any questions about anything that is related to automotive refinish paint I'm a good person to talk to.
Thanks, Ken

mrken
04-05-2006, 09:40 AM
Here is the number to contact Matrix Systems at. 1-800-735-0303, if they don't have a distributer in your area they do sell over the phone. Its a good paint system with decent clears and primers.

Another good one for just clears and primers is Starlite Coatings, they can be reached at 1-877-789-1895, they also sell over the phone. If you're looking for a really good less expensive clearcoat ask them about the SL-1900, its a 4:1 mix ratio intended for overalls and it preforms very well in hot humid climates. Great flow, easy to spray and good clarity all come with this one. I formulated it myself so give er a shot. Its been tortured tested, thrown into an oven at 160 degrees and it didn't pop, it will even stick to bare metal but no one would ever want to do that. If you try it I'm certain you'll like it.

jclark311
04-05-2006, 06:50 PM
Wow great info, thanks guys! I have 2 cars to do right now, one i already started with PPG, the other, i will shop around the generics, and give one a try, its my wifes, its red so its gonna cost more, and she doesnt have that critical an eye.

PetesPonies
04-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Matrix is growing in my area. My paint supplier is now installing Matrix paint systems in body shops. Its tough to push out a larger name in a big shop, but the price difference is converting some places. I just tried some Matrix SS urethane for the first time. It really flowed nice.